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Thanks Dan,

Last time I had the car over a pit, was about 8 weeks ago. When the car was started the actuator moved and seemed to have full movement, not was there any stickyness in its movement. I'm planning to have the car serviced in the next few days so I will check it again.

If it is an incorrectly set actuator, which way, do you think it should be moved. Should it be turned in (shortened) or turned out (lenthened)? I take it a process of experimentation is involved, namely changing the actuator setting and then looking again at block 011 on VCDS.

Thanks again for the good advice.

Kevin
 
[quote user="2tiredkl"]

Thanks Dan,

Last time I had the car over a pit, was about 8 weeks ago. When the car was started the actuator moved and seemed to have full movement, not was there any stickyness in its movement. I'm planning to have the car serviced in the next few days so I will check it again.

If it is an incorrectly set actuator, which way, do you think it should be moved. Should it be turned in (shortened) or turned out (lenthened)? I take it a process of experimentation is involved, namely changing the actuator setting and then looking again at block 011 on VCDS.

Thanks again for the good advice.

Kevin

[/quote]

Has the car ever had a new or reconditioned turbo? If not then it shouldn't need adjusting. You can check actuator movement by going in to engine > basic settings (i think) and its around channel 11 (It is on a MK4 platform anyway), basically with the engine running the revs will rise to around 1400rpm and the actuator will cycle between fully closed and fully open so you can check for free movement (should be a notable change in engine note when this happens). The actuator should move the VNT lever a good inch or so. The actuator can also be detached from the VNT lever and the lever moved by hand to check how free it is.

If the turbo has been replaced at some point and the VNT lever is definitely not sticking, then the actuator rod may need lengthening to bring the duty cycle up so the ecu has control of the boost. I would hazard a guess of it needing at least 1 whole turn, possibly 2 (or even more) to bring the duty cycle up at higher rpm.
 
Update:

Has the car ever had a new or reconditioned turbo?

Seemingly not. I bought the car as a 3yr old used car. I checked the service book and also phoned the skoda dealer service department who did 90% of the work on the car and a new turbo is not recorded on their computer.

You can check actuator movement..........revs will rise to around 1400rpm and the actuator will cycle between fully closed and fully open so you can check for free movement (should be a notable change in engine note when this happens)

I did this on VCDS and as predicted the revs rose, the glow plug flashed and the engine note changed. There was a notable increased 'whoosh' near the air filter box, so I opened it up and the sound increased x10. I take it this is normal for an overboost situation, and it indicates the turbo is releasing vacuum by pulling in air through the hose connection to the bottom of the air filter box. So that hose is not blocked........one possible problem eliminated. If my understanding is wrong, please correct me.

When talking to the Service Manager, he helpfully said that a possible cause might be an electrical wiring problem near to the gearbox........he had seen this cause 'limp mode' before It reminded me of the fact that the car had an intermittant misfire which was traced to an wiring short circuit near to the starter motor. Repair of the short resolved the misfire, but didn't change anything about the 'limp mode' which both preexisted and post dated the misfire/electrical short. It got me thinking, that perhaps the cause of the 'limp mode' is electrical and might be collatoral electrical damage to the wiring short circuit. Has anyone experienced this before?

Finally, and apologies for the long post, my mechanic mate who does the work on this car has been sent by his employer to a training course for a week and so the service and physical checking of the VNT mechanism will take place next week.

All suggestions as to next steps will be gratefully accepted and acted upon.

Thanks again

Kevin
 
[quote user="2tiredkl"]

did this on VCDS and as predicted the revs rose, the glow plug flashed and the engine note changed. There was a notable increased 'whoosh' near the air filter box, so I opened it up and the sound increased x10. I take it this is normal for an overboost situation, and it indicates the turbo is releasing vacuum by pulling in air through the hose connection to the bottom of the air filter box. So that hose is not blocked........one possible problem eliminated. If my understanding is wrong, please correct me.

[/quote]

Unfortunately not, The increased whoosh which will be significantly louder when the airbox is opened, is the sound from the turbo spooling up as the VNT will be fully closed. It quietens down onces the VNT mech opens and the turbo slows down. Its normal, and if you are getting full movement of the VNT (you should be able to get a glimpse of it and check how far it moves).

IF it is moveing freely and smoothly across the whole of its movement range then i doubt it is a sticky VNT, but you saying that limp mode went away for 2 months following the Mr. Muscle treatment screams that it IS related. I would focus my attention on this and ensure it is definitely moving and behaving as it should, especially if the turbo has never been 'interfered' with.

Never heard of an electrical issue near the gearbox area causing it, and IF the actuator is moving freely under that test then the N75 valve is working as it should. Limp mode can be caused by a variety of things, but based on that log yours is definitely from overboost

Lots of if's in there
Image
Let us know how you get on.
 
Update:

Serviced the car last night and cycled the actuator using VCDS, basic settings, channel 011, whilst my mate, in the garage pit, observed it from below. It turns out that it didn't cycle fully and he could push it a further quarter of an inch upwards, towards the top of the engine.

So, as you predicted at the outset, it looks like its a sticking actuator? My follow up question is do I give it more Mr Muscle (chemical cleaning) or "strip and clean" it ( physicial cleaning)? Which do you think will give a better result? All your advice and guidance has been 'spot on' and is much appreciated. It gives me a sense of confidence, that I'm moving from a position of great uncertainty to one where I will get this problem resolved.

Thanks again

Kevin
 
Sticky VNT mechanism it is then. A chemical clean such as the Mr Muscle treatment will only help so much, it is not a proper permanent fix or a replacement to a proper strip down and clean.

If yours has come back within 2 months, i would look to get it off the car and get it cleaned at some point. A further Mr Muscle will buy you some time while you decide what to do, i think i did mine 3 times in total before i gave in and removed the turbo.
 
Thanks Dan,

"........... Mr Muscle treatment will only help so much, it is not a proper permanent fix or a replacement to a proper strip down and clean".

A strip down and clean it is then. It will probably be done either this weekend or the following, depending on my mates other workload. I'll post again afterwards to give feedback on the outcome.

Kevin
 
Got a new refurb turbo.. and now this is overboosting .maf seems okay, always with 30 so doubt it that. shall i replace the n75 value? or just lengthen the actuator...? or could it be the blacksmoke remap?

Thanks

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Has it only started happening since the refurb turbo went on? check the actuator is moving the VNT lever correclty using the method described a few posts up. If its moving/working as it should then it is likely the actuator and/or stop screw may need adjusting.
 
It also happened on the one before... i changed i the vac lines as-well. Believe the actuator is working fine. i double check today. Stop screw? so is it possible for the actuator to over compensate due to initial not meeting the spec pressure?.
 
Did exactly the same thing happen? Do you have the graph from before? Why is there sudden drop in the graphs above? it doesn't look like limp mode... Do you lift off the accelerator pedal at all? Does the acceleration drop off slightly at the point on the graph where the boost/duty cycle suddenly drop off?

Your previously turbo could have had a coked up VNT and this one could be incorrectly set/calibrated - both would give similar symptoms.

The check will help to rule out a faulty actuator and ensure the VNT is moving freely and the N75 valve is doing its job.

Your actuator isn't over compensating initially, the ECU has absolutely no control over the boost, it is doing everything it can (max duty cycle) yet the boost is off the chart (higher than can be read by the map sensor)
 
Overboost is more likely to be the rod length than stop screw - the stop screw only really affects boost at low revs, ie when the duty cycle is low (under 25%) and will not cause sustained overboost. Always set the rod length correctly before touching the stop screw. If you remove the 2 bolts holding the actuator bracket to the turbo, you might find that even at full extension (no vac), the VNT arm is not reaching it's furthest position. This would further indicate a rod that is too short. If you can get hold of a substitute N75 then it would be a good thing to eliminate.

An alternative to the block 11 test is to just remove/reconnect the turbo vac line at idle - that should produce full movement of the VNT rod/arm. But if you have it, the block 11 test is best.

Can you remove the Blackmoke map until it's fixed? Easier to diagnose when we know what the standard boost should be.

Limp mode is duty cycle permanent at (I think) 92.5%, or thereabouts, not what we are seeing.

HTH!
 
n75 seems to be at full range of motion. I dont have a graph of it previously to hand. might be able to dig it out. Could put it back to standard map. pretty sure i had my foot to the floor could of lifted of the accelerator. but dont want to ruin the new turbo second one i had as the previous was winning when left over night. then one morning didnt going away. already sounds like ive damaged the bearing on this one. so dont really want to take it out again. think two full turns and see where it is from there?
 
Just to be clear on terms... the N75 is the black valve on the bulkhead in the engine bay with the vac pipe that leads to the turbo actuator. The actuator's the round thing on the bottom of the turbo with the rod sticking out of it. This in turn moves the VNT lever.

If the rod's too short then even at minimum boost position (rod fully extended), the vnt lever may not be all the way to minimum boost position (ie all the way up) and the ECU loses control of boost. This is most likely what's happening.

If you can separate the actuator/bracket from the turbo you'll be able to check if the VNT lever movement is free and full, and you'll also see if it's at minimum boost position when the actuator's refitted. It's a bit fiddly up there but can be done just by removing the two 10mm bolts holding the bracket to the turbo.

Two full turns (in the right direction...) would be a good start - hopefully that should lessen the boost spike, and we can take it from there to get it set just right.

Can you start your next run from 1200rpm or less, full throttle - by 1700rpm you should already be hitting spec boost. Around 1bar at 1500rpm is the sign of a healthy turbo system.

If you do a run in 4th, you'll probably hit limp mode as boost will be over spec for long enough for the ECU to panic.
 
is this W.O.T? i cant understand the sudden drop in boost pressure as well as duty cycle? Are you sure the VNT isn't getting stuck/seizing?
 
100% throttle. i thought it was a bit weird too. actuator rod seems to move smoothly and when i plug and unplug the vac line seems to have the full range of motion.... its also a new refurb'd turbo..
 
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