[djhorace]

Reading an article in an American magazine I got recently, they tested the latest Scoob v the MR400 (UK test).

Despite not having either car in the US, they made a point which I thought was quite interesting.

Even though Subaru's are mighty fine cars (I have owned one and loved it) Subaru's have historically been a little behind Mitsubushi in terms of power, torque, grip, handling, pace, acceleration etc.

Given that the similarities of 10 years ago (early Evo's v early WRX/STi's where 276bhp was the limit) now have an 20-80bhp difference in their top models in UK form (80bhp being the limited run MR400), will Subaru catch Mitsubushi in terms of dynamics and capability or indeed take away their ultimate road/rally car title as granted by the Yanks and indeed in our own press?

 

[vedhead]

Comparing the FQ400 to any subaru isnt too fair as the FQ is for track use only (have you seen the turning circle!?) and all Subarus can be used anywhere. I think that the Evos will always be a little bit more mental than the Subarus but thats mainly due to the changing customers they are both now aimed at. Mitubishi and Subaru used to both be aimed at the total all out driver but now Subaru are, by their own admision, pointing towards the executive rocket market Mitsubishi can go on making the slightly less well made yet 100% loony cars.

I think this will stop them meeting again as they used to. Having said that Subaru havent made the unlimited BHP Impreza yet now the under the table agreement has been taken away so who know, a nuts Scooby may still be in the works.

Anyway I'd have a Type 25 over any Evo []

David

 

[Chris]

Thing is, for day to day use, which would you choose? I wanted one when i sold the GTI but couldnt get insured on it (that badge.. grrr!!), but i was only every looking at WRX's.... didn't even contemplate the Evo..... the Scooby just seems a much more day to day friendly car... minus the fuel economy that is!

 

[vedhead]

Insurance on those is 30 years old + and nothing below. Spoke to Darren at Greenlight and they stopped insuring the sub 30s on Subarus due to every ?1000 they get they were paying out ten times that for claims.

What are you driving now, Chris?

David

 

[Chris]

Driving an 03 Leon Cupra 180 now mate.... not quite a WRX, but ill get there!

Was the best trade off really..... not the scally-attracting presence of a Scooby, nor the high running costs and insurance of the CupraR. It hits a happy medium for me... decent insurance, average fuel economy and very usable and fun day to day performance... oh, and i love the looks too!

 

[sammyboy]

Quote: posted by vedhead on 24/01/2005 23:50:45

Insurance on those is 30 years old + and nothing below. Spoke to Darren at Greenlight and they stopped insuring the sub 30s on Subarus due to every ?1000 they get they were paying out ten times that for claims.

What are you driving now, Chris?

David

Interesting but Adrian Flux insured me for ?900 (paying ?680 now for the anniversary)on an older model Impreza. Mind you these are group 17 rather than 19 like the latest models. When I went to buy the Impreza I was also considering an EVO V, the quote for this ?1100. Neither seemed unreasonable.

I'd take an EVO over an Impreza any day if we are talking lower spec models (apart from the 4.5K miles servicing requirement). However with the later kit Subaru are streets ahead with their Spec C and Type 25, I think perhaps insurance would be out of the question until I hit 30 though.

 

[Ratty]

Haven't had a scoob catch me yet! []

In all seriousness though, Evo's do tend to have a slightly more hardcore image, with higher running costs, stiffer ride, more expensive insurance etc. I've read of quite a few cases of people contemplated Evo's but opting for the Scoob for practicality reasons (even though they're both 4 door saloons!)

The point on the FQ400's turning circle though - it's the same on all MR's! [:O]

 

[sammyboy]

quote "even though they're both 4 door saloons!)"

Don't forget you can buy a dog basket version of an Impreza with a greenhouse welded on the back. One of the guys at the meets I used to go to had a 400bhp wagon that looked like something a vicar would drive ie no flared arches, roof bars, 15" alloys. Went out with him a couple of times and it was great fun, M3 what M3? Think he was getting down to low 11's on the strip too.

 

[EstorilBlue]

Not only that, its the family pedigree. Subaru have the Impreza, Mitsubishi have the GTO/3000GT, FTO, Eclipse and the EVO. IMO Subaru is a much weaker brand.

 

[djhorace]

All interesting points. []

To be honest, I have never really compared like for like apart from the first few Evo's and WRX Scoobies. Even then we never had either car sold here.

I fancied an Evo when I bought the Subaru, but the running costs while being high on the Subaru, were much higher on the Evo. That said, the Evo was a better proposition as a drivers car, with more power, presence and gadgetry.

The two cars are aimed at the same customer base IMO, but as has been said by a few of you, the Subaru is the one that could be more easily lived with day to day.

I guess my original question therefore was, will Subaru ever match Mitsubushi for outright pace, power and on board road holding systems as they seem to produce a very similar beast with the 25 and C Model cars?

P.S. I recall reading in Auto Express about the 6 pot Legacy engine being tuned and put in the Impreza STi some time ago. 400+bhp was mentioned, and that was before the MR400 was unwrapped...

 

[sammyboy]

Quote: posted by EstorilBlue on 25/01/2005 09:51:25

Not only that, its the family pedigree. Subaru have the Impreza, Mitsubishi have the GTO/3000GT, FTO, Eclipse and the EVO. IMO Subaru is a much weaker brand.

I'd agree it's a much weaker brand in terms of the sporting range but Subaru has a far more upmarket demographic and classier image than Mitsubishi in terms of its other models.

The Legacy has been the choice of the landed gentry for years, the new model is being talked about as a genuine rival for BMW and Mercedes mid-range offerings. I can't see middle class status symbol buyers going for a Subaru however.

Subaru was also voted Gay USA's car of the year and Subaru North America ran a series of gay themed ads to celebrate.[]

 

[The Walrus]

Also Subaru is planning the latest WRS STI with a min of 320bhp and uk cars are likely to be tweaked mildly by prodrive to produce 400bhp.

Also I would take a litchfield tweaked scoob over a mits as I am not a fan of the new shape evo I did like the old ones for some reason but dont ask me why.

 

[The Walrus]

I also think the EVO has a less appealing engine note but I am probably splitting hairs.

 

[djhorace]

Quote: posted by The Walrus on 25/01/2005 11:09:11

I also think the EVO has a less appealing engine note but I am probably splitting hairs.

Funny you should say that - I am a saddo when it comes to engine notes, and I love the noise of the Subaru, but with a sorted exhaust, the Evo can sound awesome too.

 

[The Walrus]

I know it is amazing what you can do to an engine note with a tweak of induction and exhaust mine 1.8t sounds like a subaru a low rpm and like an old 911 at mid rpm the noise seems to dissapear at high rpm very strange.

 

[djhorace]

My old VTi Civic sounded like a race car/motorbike with its exhaust. Fantastic stuff! Still makes me [][][][][][][][][][][][][][] even now....!

 

[sammyboy]

milltek full decat+remap+nice long [email protected] revs=as good as it gets.

Sounds like a Spitfire at full chat.

 

[daniel99weed]

I had a 98 EVO 5 with 310bhp before the 4motion, it was an awesome car but after 8 months it had to go. insurance for me was ?1800 aged 26, but the main killer was servicing the thing. A service is due every 4500 miles and at around ?400-?500 thats a bit much. Also in 10000 miles i went through 2 sets of dscs and pads ?500 a time. regarding the subaru i reckon they must be a lot easier to run day to day,don't think theres much around to rival a scooby on engine note.

 

[Chins]

Do we believe all the crap journalists write?

These boys get on a private jet, fly somewhere, cane the backside off a car, pick up the gift in the room and fly home - yes its true, my wife used to work in PR and organise these events. How many are impartial?????

To a point the general public are the real measure. Look at how many Scoobies are sold compared to EVO - even with the Euro (mega high depreciating Lancer 260). Journalists dont have to live with the car. Get into it day in day out and the appeal of most EVO's will fade fast.

I have really tried to like an EVO, but the Maxi has a nicer interior and I dont have a platinum let alone black card for my local dealer. If I get on a motorway I need more than 25 miles between fill ups. Ive tried most variants, but still never got close.

Subaru kick Mitsubishi bum for me. Both from the driving perspective and day to day ownership. Still the way its going Mitsubishi will be bust and Subaru wont have anything to worry about. I'm sure lot of things are better in bed than Jennifer Anniston, but when they look that bad undressed and cost more than Imelda Marcos to look after who cares.

Jonathan

 

[sammyboy]

but the EVO is the better drivers car unless we are talking high end. After owning an old scoob there isn't really much difference in the servicing requirements. My Impreza didn't run properly without 5K oil changes, 10K air filter swap and a 15K platiunum plug exchange.

Love my Imprezas but the EVO has to be better unless we are talking brand spanking new.

Guess who always wanted EVO VI Makinen.