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Im looking for a tdi and even with a ?4k budget im struggling to find a good one. But ive noticed that i can easily get a 1.8t and nearly a V5 within my budget. But unfortunately insurance is a B******
 

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TDI's are in higher demand, or at least were because of the money you could save in fuel before the government realised that everyone was moving to diesel, so put diesel prices higher than petrol.

They are also percieved to be more reliable, more capable of running up extreme mileages and percieved to be cheaper to run, which now, where we stand in the current economy isn't quite right.
 

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Because they are the best blend of power and economy if you go for a 130 or 150 I.E cheaper to run can take more mileage and a TDI 150 will out perform a petrol 150 so thats why they are more expensive they have so many benifits over the petrol counterparts
 

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Because they are the best blend of power and economy if you go for a 130 or 150 I.E cheaper to run can take more mileage and a TDI 150 will out perform a petrol 150 so thats why they are more expensive they have so many benifits over the petrol counterparts
That's not right and the petrol models have just as many benefits over the diesels. I don't care if I have a petrol or a diesel personally.

But, your saying it's cheaper to run, it's not. The petrol car will cost you 2k less to buy in the first place, therefore when talking about running cars, the cost of buying it does come into play. Petrol is also cheaper than diesel, so just because you may get 45-50mpg and a 1.8t may get 35mpg, it dont mean it's radically cheaper to run. Your paying an extra 3-5p per litre. An extra 25p per gallon etc. That extra 25p will get the 1.8t another 5 miles on a good run.
 

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Ah well thats blown away all the reasons why I went out and bought one!! Still think its amazing though!

But in genaeral over time the TDI is cheaper to Run, Insure and will deffo outlast a petrol
 

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Ah well thats blown away all the reasons why I went out and bought one!! Still think its amazing though!

But in genaeral over time the TDI is cheaper to Run, Insure and will deffo outlast a petrol
I would also think it would outlast the petrol, though I have seen petrol taxi's with 300k on the clock, one for sale on the bay at the moment actually as I wondered why it was close to me and so cheap. Mitsubishi something or other.

Diesels are cheaper to run if you do about 30k miles a year or something like that I have been told, obviously depending on the diesel and petrol car's your comparing!!
 

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TDI's are in higher demand, or at least were because of the money you could save in fuel before the government realised that everyone was moving to diesel, so put diesel prices higher than petrol.

They are also percieved to be more reliable, more capable of running up extreme mileages and percieved to be cheaper to run, which now, where we stand in the current economy isn't quite right.
Fair point Derv is 2-3p a ltr more, so say 15p a gallon, I dont think 15p of Unleaded will get you the extra 20-25mile it would that you'll get out of the TDI will it.

A tank of derv will get me anywhere from 525-580miles, how far will a tank get a 1.8T , half that I'd say, not forgetting mine remapped too [:D]

Road tax is only ?110 a year too [:D]

I'd say I am one of the forums higher milage drivers covering 30k on average a year, infact my car is 3yr old next month & has 91k on the clock

I that time I've never had a break down & the only warranty issue was aircon fans, but thats a mk4 thing on all models.

Service wise, I'm on long life & the service is on average every 18k, you just need to watch the oil level, which you should do in any car regardless of fuel type.

Diesel is the Future, just watch it win Le Man this year with Audi
 

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Isn't the price to do with the "free" ear protectors that come with all diesels? [;)]

I constantly get over 620 miles to a tank with spare derv. Perhaps I don't drive like an idiot all the time otherwise I would get a lot less though lately that has a lot to do with a slipping clutch, yielding me a little less mpg and forcing me to drive like a granny. But more on that later...

When I ordered the Golf way back I decided on the diesel over the 150t because I planned to keep the car for some time.
 

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I said the extra 25p would get you maybe up to 5 miles on a good run! Not 20-25 miles.

On the motorway at 70mph, with normal wheels, my 1.8T will average 36-37mpg. How much would a normal TDI unit give? With normal wheels? 48 at a guess? So 11-12mpg more.

Each gallon probably costs around 20-25p more and will only go up even more soon, it was lower not long back, then was the same as petrol and then has jumped and its continuing to jump.

This isn't a 'which is the best' debate. Just plain facts, like I said above, I couldnt care less which I had.

For Jace doing 30k miles a year, sure, he's onto a saving. For those doing 15k miles a year, maybe 3 years (bearing in mind you probably paid 2k more than a petrol equivalent) to even start looking at it being on the same par as a petrol model in terms of cost of ownership over the whole of the car.

Remember also that some diesels still require servicing more frequently. I did say 'some' before someone picks me up on longlife schedules. Used to be and still is on some every 6k miles instead of 10k for the petrol. All add's up.

As to the question above, I could probably get 350-380 miles out of a tank driving sensibly on longer trips. Certainly hit 350 before, but doing a lot of shorter trips recently, which obviousl eats more fuel warming the engine up each time.
 

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A 1.8t 150 surely has a lot more potential than a 150 tdi ?
No the 150 diesel is more similar in performance to the 180BHP
Petrol. You'll even notice the BHP figures are different on the
Anniversary golfs.

More torque and actually a better drive.

But I love the quietnes of a petrol.

Things I hate about diesel

Having to wear silly plastic gloves to fill up for fuel or pay the peril of smelling of diesel all day!

The smell

The noise

Only 9 pence per mile on my company expenses as most diesels are 1.9!

Things I like about diesel:

The performance is surprising and aggressive accelleration

Smoke people out behind you when you put your food down (In true eat my dust style!)

More MPG
 

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Did I say my next car will be a diesel if all goes to plan?!

Difference is I'm going for an older car (W reg ish) this time with higher miles, so will csot me the same amount roughly as a petrol with lower miles. I know I could have a petrol with highe miles, but the HDI engine running on Bio (thanks Mark) will save me some dosh. So diesel can still be cheaper and certainly is in some situations, it's just the crazy price the VW, Audi BMW units etc are still demanding for their diesels that puts the cost of ownership up here.
 

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A 1.8t 150 surely has a lot more potential than a 150 tdi ?
No the 150 diesel is more similar in performance to the 180BHP Petrol. You'll even notice the BHP figures are different on the Anniversary golfs.
More torque and actually a better drive.

But I love the quietnes of a petrol.

Things I hate about diesel

Having to wear silly plastic gloves to fill up for fuel or pay the peril of smelling of diesel all day!
The smell
The noise
Only 9 pence per mile on my company expenses as most diesels are 1.9!

Things I like about diesel:

The performance is surprising and aggressive accelleration
Smoke people out behind you when you put your food down (In true eat my dust style!)
More MPG
are you hungry?
 

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Let's not forget that although diesels are more expensive to buy, you are likely to get more money back for the car when you sell it. This kind of cancels out the higher initial purchase price.

Yeah they may sound like tractors when cold, but the torque is just great! I do about 20k a year (now up to 98k) and am sure that a petrol model would cost me a lot more to run than my Revo'd GTTDi 110. Doind all my own servicing and repairs helps too.
 

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I said the extra 25p would get you maybe up to 5 miles on a good run! Not 20-25 miles.
So if 25p = 5 miles, a ?3.50 gallon would get you 70 miles. So you get 70 miles to the gallon from your petrol-powered car...? Riiiight. [;)]

On the motorway at 70mph, with normal wheels, my 1.8T will average 36-37mpg. How much would a normal TDI unit give? With normal wheels? 48 at a guess? So 11-12mpg more.
My 150TDI, on standard 16" alloys, will get around 55mpg at 70mph. So almost 20mpg more than your petrol; over 50% more.

[:p] It costs me about ?45 to fill up from empty (below the red), which will get me 500-575 miles. A petrol will cost ?40-42 and get you 350 miles, maybe 400 tops. So Diesel can go up to almost ?1.40 a litre and you'd still only be paying the same fuel costs as the petrol equivalent.

[:p] The TDI is cheaper to insure.

[:p] The road tax on a TDI is ?110, compared to almost ?200 for the 1.8T

ps W36 EJO - not having a go at you matey, just enjoy these petrol v. diesel debates. Been driving 15 years and I've only had my first diesel two weeks, enjoying being on the 'other side'... [:D]
 

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Just to throw my 2-3p worth in, if you have a budget of say ?10k to spend on a used car, then that is the amount of money you pay. Whether it is petrol or diesel the cost of purchase is the same ?10k. The difference is that from then on the diesel is cheaper to run as it uses less fuel. I've gone from an A3 1.8T to a Bora 1.9 TDI 130. I now fill up with fuel (approx ?45) about once per month instead of at least twice. Therefore, I'm saving about ?45 per month and I'm only doing average mileage per year.
On top of this I'm saving on tax and insurance so it's all good as far as I'm concerned and when I do eventually come to sell the car it should be worth more than a ?10k petrol car bought at the same time.

....lights blue touch paper and retires to safe distance....
 

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Good post Si, I think thats exactly the point. The "diesel is more expensive to buy in the first place" argument falls on it's face when you consider how people actually buy cars.

I would think that 99% of the car buying public buy their cars in one of two ways;

1- "I have ?10k to spend, what can I get for ?10k?" This is what Si outlines above. Maybe you won't get quite as new a diesel car as a petrol one, but you will save money because you will have spent the same amount.

2- "I have ?X to spend per month on a finance payment and fuel. What can I get for that?" In a lot of cases the saving on fuel will at least cancel out the extra finance payments needed to get the diesel model over the petrol. And diesels have better residuals and cheaper insurance/tax, hence you save money.

Also the number of miles needed to start saving money depends on the individuals circumstances as well as the price of the car (i.e if you have finance it makes a big difference).

I actually have a spreadsheet which will work out the running costs- give me ten minutes and I'll go and compare a Golf GT FSI to a GT TDI.

([:$] should I have admitted that on a public forum? [:$])
 

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LOL one thing that always comes out of these diesel vs petrol debates is whats coming above:

'But I was going to spend x on a car anyway" and it always seems to come down to the very nitty gritty, i.e. adding up the pence.

TDI's are obviously cheaper to run over x amount of mile.

What I was trying to get at above, is the total cost of ownership, which is a completely valid point. TDI's will STILL come out cheaper at the moment, before more increases in fule prices, though I think ?1.40 per litre vs 93p per litre weighing up against petrol is a bit optimistic.

Like I said, I'm not here to say petrol or diesel is better, I myself am looking for a diesel car now. All I'm saying is, diesel is NOT always cheaper over the lifetime of ownership. Maybe when you get 150miles further on your tank of fuel, but not when you come to buy said TDI.

Man buys petrol car at 8k.

Man buys diesel car at 10k.

Petrol gets 350 miles per tank, diesel gets 500miles per tank. Petrol costs more over the miles but the man who bought the petrol didnt pay an extra 2k. So that 2k buys a LOT of fuel which gives a LOT of miles.

That's what I was getting at.

Oh, and to the above....I said MAYBE up to 5 extra miles. I wasn't saying in a Ferrari, in a golf 1.8T or in a 900cc Daihatsu.
 

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Right, I?ve done some calculations, and come up with some interesting results.

The two cars I?ve compared are a mkV Golf GT TDI 3dr and the equivalent GT FSI.

I?ve used manufacturers official combined MPG figures (49 for TDI, 36 for FSI).

Fuel costs I?ve used are what I can see from the Shell garage across the road! (87.9ppl for UL, 91.9ppl for Derv).

I?ve calculated the savings for buying new and two years old (the oldest of the mkV Golfs).

New;

Buying outright with cash you will save ?325 buying the FSI. (17600 vs 17275)

The FSI works out at 11.1p per mile, the TDI 8.5p per mile, therefor once you have covered 12,500 miles you will have made back the difference. (that?s 12,500 total, not per year).

Taking myself as a typical case of someone who is financing the car;

I have a ?5k trade-in and will finance the remaining ?12k over 5 years. I do 13000miles a year.

I will save ?21.61 per month on combined finance and fuel payments with the diesel.

Using those circumstances I only need to do 3,000 miles per year for the TDI to save me money on a monthly basis.

Used

Ok, given the smallish difference in cost between the two models new, it?s not really surprising that the TDI will save money if you drive beyond the end of your street every day.

What this thread is really about though is why used diesel prices are so high compared to their petrol equivalents, and if this cancels out their economy savings.

So, taking Parkers prices for 04 plate Golfs, the prices are as follows;

FSI = ?13,735, TDI = ?14,420. So nearly an extra ?700 for the diesel.

So if you pay for that out of your pocket (no finance) you need to cover 26,500 miles in your diesel to break even (saving 2.6p per mile).

For a typical example of someone financing this car, I have chosen someone with a ?4k trade-in, who covers 12,000miles a year and finances the car over 4 years.

This will cost (for fuel and finance) ?306.64 for the diesel, and ?316.28 for the petrol. So it's a small saving, but ?120 a year is still ?120 a year.

For the petrol to be cheaper per month it would need to be ?1100 cheaper than the diesel instead of ?685 (assuming you still did 12k miles and the diesel was still ?14,420)

Or looking at it another way, if both cars were the prices Parkers quote, then you would need to cover less than 7500 miles per year to save with the petrol.

That is a heck of a lot of calculations, and I do realise that I now look like a total gimp. [:$]

I also realise that if I don?t do some work soon I will get the sack. [:O]

However, I would say that in conclusion, if you do anywhere near the UK average miles in a year then you will save money over the period you own the car if you buy a diesel as opposed to the equivalent model with a petrol engine and similar performance.
 
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