[RayBanUK]

TheRealist. Actually, when I was looking at my MKIV, I was also considering buying a A3 but it just worked out more expensive and had less toys compared to the Golf. Given me the choice right now though, I would certainly consider the A3 or even A4 compared to the MKV Golf as it doesnt seem that much more for a better marque imo.

The other thing is, I think its hard to go to other cars once you sat in German. I mean jap cars are pretty much mundane (normal cars I mean) and although the french and english cars have caught up, theres still this perception (be true or not) that german cars are more reliable.

 

[cjp2k]

Yeah I have had a few niggles with the GOlf..few rattles etc

but i will still probs go german next time as well!

 

[Tom R32]

I would never buy a Golf lower than the R32 - far better cars out there. A3 Anyone?

 

[TheRealist]

Sounds like I'm not in the minority in not getting the I''ll buy a new MkV golf' mentality

more like the norm what does that say about the staple VW seller then?

If the R32 MkV comes out with the same looks, attitude, driveability of the MkIV and

it's priced Ok (i.e. about 24K) then that's the only one to buy []

TheRealist

 

[cjp2k]

Quote: posted by Tom R32 on 22/10/2004 12:39:57

I would never buy a Golf lower than the R32 - far better cars out there. A3 Anyone?

Would of got a A3... but more expensive to insure, When i got the golf.. no 5 doors which i need and for the same spec as mine more ??

 

[Richard W]

Quote: posted by Tom R32 on 22/10/2004 12:39:57

I would never buy a Golf lower than the R32 - far better cars out there. A3 Anyone?

I wouldn't even buy an R32 - far better cars for the money out there[]

Is the A3 really that much better Tom.....?

Whe I bought my Golf I wanted an A3 but for the budget:

Didn't have PD engine

Didn't have 5 doors

TDi sport spec - rocking horse poo...

So as Audi left it 'til very late in the model life to fit a PD engine, then didn't do the 150, tried to broaden the appeal by doing a 5 door and did that late too, etc, etc.

Didn't tick my box[:I] I'm afraid....

Keep it going guys, nice to have a good informed discussion!

 

[pope1]

I suspect that a lot of the Mk V sales have gone to previous VW owners who want to stick with the brand due to their past experience. If that theory is true, the choice may not be based on a comprehensive review of that segment of the car market but on perceptions like:

Focus - don't like the looks, trim and resale value, new model due soon.

Vauxhall - horrible reputation, wouldn't be seen dead in one.

Renault, Citroen, Peugeot - interiors not up to the mark.

I'm not saying I agree with the views above but I suspect that many VW owners perceive the market that way. Personally I'm watching Vauxhall very carefully to see how they develop and reckon that they may well have an interesting range of performance cars on offer over the next 2-3 years.

I did not set out to buy a VW and never expected to do so. I always thought that the Leon offered better performance for the money but they don't sell those here and it was too expensive to import one privately. At the time I could not imagine putting the "feel-good factor" ahead of straight performance and did not see the Golf as a performance car in terms of acceleration, its weight or handling. I also did not realise the extent to which the car is tunable. However, when I drove the car I was impressed by the refinement, the apparent build quality and, dare I say it, the overall feel-good factor in a market dominiated by Jap cars. I figured that I would just get it chipped and put on a set of Konis and that would be it. Two and a half years later...I'm planning to keep the car for some time longer and check my sig below.

 

[Tom R32]

Quote: posted by Richard W on 22/10/2004 12:54:56

Quote: posted by Tom R32 on 22/10/2004 12:39:57

I would never buy a Golf lower than the R32 - far better cars out there. A3 Anyone?

I wouldn't even buy an R32 - far better cars for the money out there[]

Is the A3 really that much better Tom.....?

Whe I bought my Golf I wanted an A3 but for the budget:

Didn't have PD engine

Didn't have 5 doors

TDi sport spec - rocking horse poo...

So as Audi left it 'til very late in the model life to fit a PD engine, then didn't do the 150, tried to broaden the appeal by doing a 5 door and did that late too, etc, etc.

Didn't tick my box[:I] I'm afraid....

Keep it going guys, nice to have a good informed discussion!

A3 is far better IMHO - I have been in loads and they are just a nicer all round package than a Golf - only MHO of course.

As for better cars for the money than the R32 - well I dont think there is. If we are talking buying new - I couldnt find anything when I was looking that even came close and offered all the R32 does for the 22k it costs.

I looked around and test drove a fair few cars - but in the end came back the R32 and bought one, 4wd, 3.2V6, looks, practicality, rare, solid - what else could I have got anywhere near that?

 

[pope1]

Hey Tom, welcome back! People on here have been asking about you and I've missed your smutty comments. How was the trip?

 

[Tom R32]

Quote: posted by pope1 on 22/10/2004 14:30:09

Hey Tom, welcome back! People on here have been asking about you and I've missed your smutty comments. How was the trip?

Thanks mate - long boring story about the trip mate. Smutty comments? I thougt my input was intelligent []

See the big foot thread mate - thats starting to get funny []

 

[kenl]

Quote: posted by TheRealist on 22/10/2004 12:02:39

The MkV however is not build any better, the material isn't any better, it's outhandled by

a lot of it's competition and to top it all it's expensive when specced to a typical owners

preference. So I fail to see what's driving people to buy one.

Please tell us which of the Golf's competitors outhandle it and in what ways. For me the Golf is the complete article which is what most people are after.

From a personal \point of view, my last car was a new MINI which handles superbly, I am not disappointeed by the Golf's handling at all.

 

[pope1]

Quote: posted by kenl on 22/10/2004 19:32:49

Quote: posted by TheRealist on 22/10/2004 12:02:39

The MkV however is not build any better, the material isn't any better, it's outhandled by

a lot of it's competition and to top it all it's expensive when specced to a typical owners

preference. So I fail to see what's driving people to buy one.

Please tell us which of the Golf's competitors outhandle it and in what ways. For me the Golf is the complete article which is what most people are after.

From a personal \point of view, my last car was a new MINI which handles superbly, I am not disappointeed by the Golf's handling at all.

Err Focus perhaps. It's not a competitor by any means, but my 20 year old Lancia on its skinny 185 tyres has better handling than my Golf too.

 

[TheRealist]

Sorry Guys .... only contribute to forums from work and not home .. hehehehe .. maybe that should be the

other way round.

The Golf is not a great handling car. Sure the MkV is better but it's still a bit roly-poly.

The Focus is a better handling car and the new Astra (I've tried one) feels better too (at

least it did to me [] ).

It's not all about grip either or stiff suspension for me either. Take an Impreza and an Elise ..

the Impreza grips better and is harder riding, the Elise though handles better .. soaks up

bumps, doesn't understeer and kind of resurfaces the road as you go. Try the same road in

a hard sprung car (i.e. Focus RS or usual Audi sports suspension) and you may think you have

a better handling car (because it feels more like a go cart) but a look at your speedo will

tell you that you're just going slower.

A Golf is a nice car but don't kid yourself it's a great handling car.

TheRealist.

 

[simfin]

Realist,

You seem to be a real authority on Car handling and characteristics - I assume you are some sort of professional racing driver, with possibly a huge cabinet full of trophy's[]

I can assure you that an Impreza driven correctly does not understeer, the problem is that you seem to be confusing real world driving with closed circuit car control. I have been in an impreza driven, not by me, but by a semi-pro Rally driver. The thing is with a 4-wheel drive car is that it will flatter poor drivers, but will really reward a good driver. (His words not mine) I could only dream of the sort of car control that these guy's have.

As for the MK5 golf handling - I know the MK4 is not all that - The MK5 is like alot of new cars out at the moment - possibly including the new Focus when it arrives. These cars are leaps and bounds on from the 'last' generation of cars.

The other consideration which is often forgotten in these conversations is tyres. Again another real possible hornets nest here, but one type of tyre on a focus may seem better than another - indeed when a car is developed it is normally set up with a specific tyre in mind. Change this tyre and the whole handling/ride aspect of the car can change.

As for why I bought a MK5 Golf - Well for hopefully reliability, build quality, yes it does beat Ford IMO. Resale values, comfort and yes if you like a little bit to do with the Badge. For a new car of ?17,500, I did look around but could not find one that suited my needs as well as the New Golf.

Cheers

Simfin

 

[TheRealist]

Sorry Simfin .. didn't mean to sound like a know it all.

I'm an average driver that's luckily had the chance to drive quite a few cars and try to test drive

most of the new ones when they come out so I can see if I like them.

I've had an Impreza with various tyres and the general characteristic for the average driver is

to get them to understeer. I has a bumpsteer mod which involves shimming the steering rack to

try and get a more neutral car which it did to a point. I'm sure better drivers than me get

Scoob to drift around corners but I don't think I'd be safe doing that on real world roads.

In the wet the general trait of the scoob was to drift wide ..

If you read my first post you'll see I mention that the GT TDi is the only MkV I see the

point of (i.e. your car).

We're getting off topic now which was why do Golf owners buy them? .. not a pointless

discussion about handling characteristics ... that is usually down to who drives them

and I found (i.e. my own personal experience) that I much preferred a Focus or Astra

drive wise to a MkV.

TheRealist.

 

[Richard W]

Quote: posted by Tom R32 on 22/10/2004 14:21:22

A3 is far better IMHO - I have been in loads and they are just a nicer all round package than a Golf - only MHO of course.

As for better cars for the money than the R32 - well I dont think there is. If we are talking buying new - I couldnt find anything when I was looking that even came close and offered all the R32 does for the 22k it costs.

I looked around and test drove a fair few cars - but in the end came back the R32 and bought one, 4wd, 3.2V6, looks, practicality, rare, solid - what else could I have got anywhere near that?

We'll agree to differ there then, I wouldn't spend money (not mine anyway![]) on a new car, I just couldn't take the depreciation.

With that in mind ?22k(ish!) would buy me a M5......[8D]

http://www.imc-online.co.uk/

 

[businessboy]

a focus or astra compared to a mkv. what ya talking about!! each to their own i guess.

i have driven them all, the new astra is very good.- an amazing improvement against the last 1.-i thought it had a very good build and felt solid and german car like- however its looks (and badge) let it down - plus its handling isnt in the mkv class. - the focus is, but then again u get into a dodgey looking interior, this new 1 is meant to be similar. i've never been a fan of the focus styling. but this new 1 looks a bit cack to me. sure it'l look better on the roads.

vw's above the competition have class, build quality, resale values and excellent reliability!

 

[simfin]

I know what you mean about the focus and the handling - I had a hire car turn up which was a Focus estate (never driven a focus previously), and thought "oh Cr*p, I have'nt got that for 2 days have I?" - but what a revelation compared to the car I then had - Actually blagged it for a couple of extra days, for dump runs etc []

I looked at the Scooby as an alternative to the Golf, but I am doing 20,000 miles a year, as my car is to replace my Company car program. Running a Subaru for 3 years and possibly 70,000 miles would be soooooo expensive.

Back to the subject of the Golf - I think the ver riding factor ina Golf purchase both pre MK4 and maybe MK5 onwards id the prestige. Like it or not, the motoring press have built up the VW badge, and while others have in some cases caught up, there is still the feeling that a VW is for quality.

Our other car in the family is a Mondeo TDCi, running on 18in wheels. I think Ford have made huge increases in build quality, but this car is now 14 onths old and covered around 14,000 miles, but already 2 bits of the trim are falling off. Ford only warrant trim for 12 months [!] - is VW the same ? The problem seems to be that the trim quality has increased, but then old habits exist with mounting brackets and tabs/sockets etc.

I also made a point of asking a the car phone installers that come to our workplace Which cars they think are the best built? - They take cars apart everyday and then pop-em back together. They seem to always mention BMW as being good, surprisingly not that impressed with the lower model ranges of the new Mercedes, and also think that the toyotas,VW and Audi are all good. This may not be a real scientific survey, but is worth considering.

 

[TheRealist]

I had a 3dr Focus TDi for a few days and thought it handled brilliantly.

I loved my Scooby but servicing is expensive .. even more for classic models (every 6 months)

and my MY00 car was about 1 grand for the 60K service (spark plugs + cambelt etc) and that

was with not much else wrong.

I do think you've maybe hit the nail on the head. It's the prestige .. I suppose your average

buyer sees a Golf as a prestige car compared to a Vauxhall/Ford/Seat etc and assumes that the

build quality will be better etc and people look at you differently .. oooh he drives a golf.

That's never been the case with me, I like to drive so want better handling and a fun drive.

TheRealist.

 

[Richard W]

Astra, Focus both good cars, reports on the Focus have all rated the handling very highly. Never actually driven one myself.

But to actually spend my money on a Ford or a Vauxhall (VX220 excepted!) - no - I'm a badge snob and just wouldn't have one, strangely enough I'd have a Skoda vRS though. I think it comes down to those who know, know. If you know what I mean....