VW golf 4 GT TDI 115 cold start issues! Any help please guys?

19017 Views 19 Replies 11 Participants Last post by Raymk4, Jan 8, 2011

grant74

Discussion Starter · Jan 1, 2011

Hi there folks
A Happy new year to all of you for a start!
Ok, down to business then! My 2001(130k miles) Golf GT TDI 115 (most unrelialble car I have EVER had - crap!) is p'ing me off as usual - this time it refuses to start on first turn of the key when stone cold - no matter if its -10c or +5 - whatever - it takes approx 3 turns of key and when it does start it runs a bit pants for 5 to 10 secs - then is absolutely fine for the rest of that day!!
So far this car has had.......

New Turbo (brand new)
New water pump
New cambelt kit
New cam and followers
New rear wash motor (old one leaked into boot)
Set of new ND denso glow plugs

And I've had it 2 months! - It doesn't exactly give me much faith in VW! I also tried swapping relay 103 with a mates identical car - made no difference, so I am at a loss as to what direction to go in now - the car runs fine otherwise but it is a bit infuriating and embarrassing to say the least!
So, any thoughts or ideas please guys? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks

Grant.

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1 - 20 of 20 Posts

G-Dub

· #2 · Jan 1, 2011

Tried replacing the coolant sensor ? Really common problems with these cured my rough starting.

How come youve replaced so many parts?

wagachef

· #3 · Jan 1, 2011

my car used to start the first time most of the time, but it took quite few turns if you know what i mean, and i used to hear the flywheel knock so badly

replaced he battery and all is good now, as soon as i turn the key the engine runs very quick

BigJase

· #4 · Jan 1, 2011

starter on the blink

cmgreen

· #5 · Jan 1, 2011

New Turbo (brand new) - Previous user error
New water pump - regular service item
New cambelt kit - regular service item
New cam and followers - Previous user error, prob used wrong oil or not regular oil change
New rear wash motor (old one leaked into boot) - common fault
Set of new ND denso glow plugs - should be changed every 100k any way

And I've had it 2 months! - It doesn't exactly give me much faith in VW! I also tried swapping relay 103 with a mates identical car - made no difference, so I am at a loss as to what direction to go in now - the car runs fine otherwise but it is a bit infuriating and embarrassing to say the least!
So, any thoughts or ideas please guys? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks

Grant.

Looks as if you have bought a car that the previous owner could'nt give a fook about, i would change the temp sensor and replace the battery, not with a cheap one but a good bosch one.

Why no faith in vw?? You bought a old car with over 130k on the clock, did you expect to have to spend no money on it?? Preventive Maintence is the key to any car lasting. The turbo and cam prob went because the previous owner didnt change the oil enough/didnt used the correct oil, Oil in pd engines shoud be changed around every 5k (10k if using Longlife oil), also let the engine idle for around 30-60 secs when just about to turn the engine off (accually this goes for any turbo car).

Temp sensor should be around £31, remember to top up with vw g12+ coolant around £5-6 per bottle, battery, budget for around £65-80 (bosch 74ah one will be more than gud enough for 3-4 years tops).

One of my cars, vw bora is on 217k by simply looking after it. ( got it at 80k)

grant74

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jan 1, 2011

Hiya! thanks for the input so far guys. To answer one of your questions - why so many new parts..... call it monkey servicing from a previous garage. It started off when the turbo went, which I promptly got sorted, then my mechanic said he wasn't happy with the way it sounded - sure enough, one or more of the hydraulic tappets was knackered - so I decided upon replacing the cam too - which in turn prompted me to get a new belt and tensioner kit fitted - upon doing this my guy then noticed that the wrong water pump has previously been fitted to the car, which meant the belt was not running central on the water pump pulley - so I ordered the correct one for my engine code and hey presto! That was it sorted - or so I thought - now it has this cold start issue - not the end of the world but bloody annoying! As for the last reply about this - (guy with the 217k Bora) - I can totally appreciate what you are saying and agree with you in most of what you are saying. I guess my view of VW has suffered as previous to this I have had 2 old Mazda's (an MX-5 and a 323f) - both gave no trouble whatsoever - other than v.poor fuel MPG - which was my reason for buying the TDI - and yes, I suppose I was foolish to assume that all would be ok with it but I was going on owner reviews, the fact it had FSH and low ownership - all of which I think is pointless if the FSH was carried out by incompetent mechanics - as you rightly point out, cars (all of them) should be maintained regardless of cost if they are to prove reliable. So bugger it - I might just run it to local VW garage and have them scan it properly and see if that nails the issue(s?) - Thanks for all replies so far though guys!

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Charlie169

· #7 · Jan 1, 2011

you can almost guarantee that the coolant sensor is to blame here mate, i had it on mine. theres lots of threads on here about it. takes about an hour to do and a litre of coolant. also might be worth running to a garage and getting the battery tested, this cold can kill weak or old batteries.

As for the faith in VW, this is my second one and 3rd in my family. Dads was a 1989 passat 1800petrol - 230,000. then my 1.8t 20v passat b5 178,000, and now the gt tdi 115 - 161,000. none of them never started, the golf is the only one that showed any hesitation but since a service, and the sensor...1st time every time! as long as you look after these cars they go on for ever!

aham_uk

· #8 · Jan 2, 2011

Like anycar, good maintainence = long life.

I sold my 1st 115tdi bora at 227,000 miles still on the original exhaust!
I bought my latest car with full service history, knowing it needed lots of work which the garage failed to fix when it was an open cheque book customer.

Your cold starting problems could be caused by any number of things including. Battery on it's way out, Starter being weak without the classic symptoms, coolant temperature sensor failure, crank sensor etc etc.

grant74

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jan 3, 2011

Hi Guys - thanks for the new responses - well, I had the battery checked today and it was just hovering around 12v and the guy's gauge displayed "battery unservicable!" so I will be having another fitted anyway as dont want to be stranded if it dies! So, who knows, that may cure it, as it needs a battery anyway then its def worth a go! Will keep the post updated for other owners to indulge in! CHEERS ALL!

ajmoir36

· #10 · Jan 3, 2011

You test to see if its the coolent temp sender by removing the connection on the back when its really cold, as it will think its the coldest settings and leave the glow plugs on for as long as possible. If the car starts first time, then its this thats the problem. Also check to see if the coolent temp sender is black or green, if its black then they are common to failing so get a green one anyway.

grant74

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jan 5, 2011

Well, thats certainly worth a go! I've just had a new battery (old one was reading low anyway), but still to no avail - like I say - only ever happens when its stone cold (ie. overnight!) - can ya tell me where the temp sensor is located please? with pics if possible would be even better! many thanks for your help.

jobba

· #12 · Jan 5, 2011

have you changed glow plugs recently or checked that your getting the correct voltage?

ajmoir36

· #13 · Jan 5, 2011

Well, thats certainly worth a go! I've just had a new battery (old one was reading low anyway), but still to no avail - like I say - only ever happens when its stone cold (ie. overnight!) - can ya tell me where the temp sensor is located please? with pics if possible would be even better! many thanks for your help.

Well on my dads bora 130tdi (ASZ engine code) it was on the right hand side of the engine near the back low down. Connection is where a large hose turns the corner, i found a pic somewhere.

this thread may be of use http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/168347.aspx

this thread may be of use http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=89431

this one too http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=730025

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ajmoir36

· #14 · Jan 5, 2011

have you changed glow plugs recently or checked that your getting the correct voltage?

On my dads we found three knackered glow plugs on a 55k mileage car. It was obvious they didnt work they were black and charred, not the like the fourth that was ok brown nice like a spark plug.

This is an excellent guide on this forum http://www.tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/

"- MIL which comes on after approximately 30 seconds of starting the engine, but which is not associated with any apparent driveability problems but which MAY be associated with difficult cold starting, may indicate a problem related to the glow plug or the glow plug circuit. If you get a "glow plug monitoring" fault upon investigation with VAG-COM, remove the wiring harness from the glow plugs and measure the resistance between each glow plug terminal and the engine block. All four should be the SAME and in the 0.5 to 1.0 ohm range. If you find that one or more glow plugs are either outside this range or are different from the others, consider replacing ALL FOUR glow plugs with new ones. The resistance of the glow plugs must match very closely and since it changes as the plugs get older, one must change all four to ensure that they start out with the same resistance and will all have the same pattern of aging. Also check the main glow plug fuse (it's visible under a small clear plastic cover somewhere in the engine compartment - typically either near the battery or on the firewall). If there are no apparent faults with the fuse or the glow plugs, the most likely problem involves poor electrical connection between the harness and the glow plugs - try sanding / cleaning these contacts or replacing the harness (not expensive). The official service procedure calls for replacing the glow plug relay but it has been found that an exceedingly large majority of the time, the relay is not at fault."

Borrowed from that FAQ.

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grant74

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 7, 2011

wow - thank you guys for all your help. I believe you may have cracked it - I tried unplugging the temp sensor (which, incidentally was the old black type) and guess what, the glow plugs stayed on lot longer and it fired up 1st time and sounded fine - and just to re-affirm it - I tried it twice over 2 days - same result! sweet! Also, drove it to work tonight, come out 6 hours later and turned key (temp sensor connected) and it took 3 attempts and even then it sounded rough for ten secs. So I have ordered a new green type sensor with clip and o-ring and will be fitting it when it arrives - hopefully this will sort it - certainly seems that way anyway! So thanks all - and I hope this thread will help any others (Sure there are a few!!) with the same issue! One final thing - has anybody any tips on fitting the new temp sensor? and how to minimise coolant loss? Many thanks again guys!

Washer

· #16 · Jan 7, 2011

Its 10k for pd oil, 20k on longlife (which it shouldnt be)

Raymk4

· #17 · Jan 7, 2011

I done mine recently Grant, just have your new sensor and o-ring ready to fire in after the old one is out (make sure the old o ring is out also) you can have the new one in after a couple of seconds f your ready!

Be careful with the holding clip, they break easily.

aham_uk

· #18 · Jan 8, 2011

Here is my full guide on how to change them. http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/378879.aspx
Please be aware that unplugging the sensor puts the glow plugs on for much longer which builds up compression and can hide any other underlining problems such as a single dead glowplug, weak startermotor or low compression.

ajmoir36

· #19 · Jan 8, 2011

Unod the coolant tank cap to release the pressure and do it back up, just dont remove the coolant tank cap with the coolent temp sensor out as it will empty coolant faster than you can shake a stick. You may need some anti-freeze/water to top up. Also locate it the same way the old one came out. If it is black then they are renound for being faulty.

Raymk4

· #20 · Jan 8, 2011

I think he said it was black up top, I upgarded mine which was also the black one but it made no hint of diference to anything, maybe I had the only working black sensor.

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