[Felix]

Just sent the following mail to the ABI, it is my opinion that their legal dept will be flapping over this!

As the email I sent is my property I am within my rights to psot it in the public domain:[^]

quote:

Written without prejudice

Dear Sir,

It is my personal opinion that the Volkswagen Golf DT TDI PD (130PS) has been incorrectly placed into the insurance group of 14. In fact this vehicle has been placed into the same insurance group as the higher performance/specification and more expensive GTI model.

Information published on the Association of British Insurers web site shows how an insurance group rating for a vehicle is achieved, the specific area of the web site quoted from is as follows:

http://www.abi.org.uk/Public/Consumer/Motor/motoins.asp

Under the section entitled "How the system works" it states that "The factors used to calculate group ratings are:"

1. Damage and Parts Costs

2. Repair Times

3. New Car Values

4. Body Shells

5. Performance

6. Car Security

Using these "factors" to compare the two vehicles in question highlights what I personally believe to be a questionable decision to place the GT TDI PD (130PS) into the same insurance group as the higher specification GTI model.

With regard to points one and two, the vehicles are identical as they use the same body panels and structure. However should the engine need to be replaced in a vehicle, the GTI model would be more costly.

With regard to point three, the GTI is over £1300 more expensive (some 7.7%) than the lower specification GT TDI PD (130PS).

With regard to point four, the cars have the same body shells.

With regard to point five, the GTI model is far more powerful than the lesser specification model; the 0-62mph figure is over 11% faster in the GTI model.

With regard to point six, the cars have the same security devices fitted as standard and are therefore identical.

After reviewing the above, the only discernable differences with regard to those six points are that the GTI model is more expensive and more powerful. Yet the ABI has grouped the two vehicles into the same insurance group.

I have constructed a report detailing the clearly distinguishable differences between the two models of Volkswagen Golf in question. This report contains photographs of these differences - including the extremely distinguishable rear badges (TDI and GTI respectively).

It is my independent view as the author of this report that the ABI should return the GT TDI PD (130) vehicle to its original insurance group of ten with immediate effect.

As a member of a UK internet forum having over one thousand members, and an estimated two hundred owners of the GT TDI PD (130PS) I can say that this view is shared by all the owners I have spoken to thus far.

Keeping the vehicle in this current insurance group will not only be unfairly victimising the owners of this vehicle model by forcing them to pay unnecessarily high premiums, but will also presumably be affecting current and future Volkswagen sales of this vehicle model.

Should the ABI not take action and return this vehicle to its original insurance group (10), as the author of this report, I reserve the right to take action against the ABI in order to obtain such a result. This report shall also be made available to any other parties wishing to take action against the ABI or any other parties, in a recovery of all or part of the additional insurance premiums incurred as a result of this change of insurance group rating.

Volkswagen may wish to use information contained within this report in any action they may wish to take against the ABI in order to recover potential lost revenue as a result of the decision made by the ABI to increase the insurance group rating on this vehicle.

Yours Faithfully

Christopher L. Ball.

File attachment: (this file is in Microsoft Word 2000 format. If this format is not compatible with your systems please contact myself in order to obtain the file in a format compatible with your systems.)

I attached a copy of my report, shown here:

Http://www.chesterfield.plus.com/Report.htm

Ill wait for a reply now - I shouldn't think it will take too long!

 

[Thos]

Looks good, best of luck with it Felix !

 

[Nick TDI130]

Keep up the good work felix, if this problem gets sorted I'm sure all of us TDI 130 owners will be buying you a drink for all the hard work you have put into this, just make sure your not driving [] as there will be a few.

Cheers Nick

 

[1.8T]

Sorry if this makes me sound dumb but.... isn't the cost of insurance related to risk.

By that I mean, if the total value paid out in claims by people owning PD130's increases then the cost of insuring one should increase as they are higher risk. Could it not be that the insurance companies are having to pay out excessivly on PD130's.

Just a thought so please don't shoot me down in flames.

 

[Foxy]

I would say that the "risk" would be based on the car and driver, not the numbe of cars sold (popularity).

There are alot of F0rd Fiestas out there and perhaps the most popular model is the 1.4 LX but would this necessitate the insurance being the same group as the 1.4 Zetec Ghia??

Just my 2p

 

[4pot]

quote:

Originally posted by foxy

I would say that the "risk" would be based on the car and driver, not the numbe of cars sold (popularity).

There are alot of F0rd Fiestas out there and perhaps the most popular model is the 1.4 LX but would this necessitate the insurance being the same group as the 1.4 Zetec Ghia??

Just my 2p

Agreed, but I bet they will argue a similar thing to what Mark says above, wrong as it may be.

I will be using your email from the other thread once i get home tho, cheers.

 

[Felix]

well - I got a reply. here it is in its full glory.

quote:

(name removed)@ABINOTES

01/07/2003 07:29 AM

As already mentioned, we are in touch with Volkswagen on this matter.

I shall write to you again once the situation is clarified, which hopefully will

be shortly.

(name removed by Felix)

Association of British Insurers

Ahh - well that clears things up doesn't it? Well they have clearly taken no account of the points raised in both my email and attached report - therefore I shall be phoning my solicitor this afternoon.

I intend to return an email to the author of this reply informing them of my actions.

here is the reply Ive sent them:

quote:

Without prejudice

Dear Sir,

As you are acting on behalf of the ABI and there is no evidence of any real action being taken on this matter other than "we are in touch with Volkswagen", I would like to offer the following statement.

On the basis of evidence outlined not only in the email but also the report previously mailed to yourself; which I would hope has been examined by the appropriate bodies at the ABI, I am left with no other course of action but to seek immediate legal advice with regard to ensuring the vehicle in question (GT TDI PD (130PS)) is placed in a lower insurance group than the higher specification and performnce model (GTI).

Any action taken may include but not be limited to action against individuals responsible for the increase in insurance group on this vehicle and persons in any way responsible for the vehicle remaining in the designated insurance group, action against the ABI for the increase of insurance group on this vehicle. Any action may also be taken on behalf of all UK resident GT TDI PD 130PS owners insuring their vehicle after the date on which the insurance group was increased.

Yours Faithfully

Christopher L. Ball.

 

[4pot]

is that the sound of a ABI worker's sphincter rolling around on the floor i hear?

LOL

 

[1.8T]

quote:

Originally posted by foxy

I would say that the "risk" would be based on the car and driver, not the numbe of cars sold (popularity).

There are alot of F0rd Fiestas out there and perhaps the most popular model is the 1.4 LX but would this necessitate the insurance being the same group as the 1.4 Zetec Ghia??

Just my 2p

Foxy,

My point was not based on number of cars sold but on total amount paid out per car insurred. If insurance companies pay out more per car insurred with PD130's than PD150's then I would expect the premiums to be higher for the 130 as the risk to the insurance compay is greater.

 

[GAN]

It's been some two weeks since the legal doc was drafted up. Is there any update on this.....

 

[Felix]

I have yet to recieve an update from the ABI, apparently VW met with the ABI two weeks ago today, and then again this time last week. However I am yet to recieve a response from the ABI as promised.

I have sent them an email asking for an update, and also for my questions in a previous e-mail to be answered (as they seemed to be completely ignored last time)

I have now had about a dozen emails back and forth with a particular individual at the ABI, each time choosing to steer quite clear of any of my direct questions:

quote:

1) Has any member of the ABI staff physically inspected the vehicles?

2) Were these physical, badge and performance differences taken into consideration when assigning this vehicle to an advisory group?

3) Were the vehicles power outputs tested during the allocation of the advisory group rating?

4) Why exactly (stating full explanatory reasons) was the vehicles advisory group rating increased?

As yet I have no answer at all to any of these questions. Though take it from me, I have far from given up on this issue - and I feel very sorry for those people who have had to insure thier 130pd whilst it is still in the higher insurance group rating.

However if you shop around, you can find some insurers that still group this car in group 10 (for now).

I have asked the ABI what thier position is regarding members of the public who have had to insure thier vehicle in the higher insurance group, and again, as yet have had no direct answer to this question.

I have sent another mail this morning, and hopefully should recieve a reply later today.

 

[bjs144]

Keep up the hard work Felix.

Sounds to me like corporate ignorance.

 

[polo2k]

sorry to sound ignorant but wouldnt the extra torque of the diesel account for the extra hp given by the gti as i imagine that this would affect the rating also the engine wieght differences might bump it up a little as i imagine the diesel is a little heavier thus making the car understeer more (diesels use about 2x the compression iirc thus need to be stronger and heavier). im sorry for bringing up some potentially contreversial points (and no doubt a lot of bad spelling)

oh and did anyone else notice the time on the reply :

---------------------

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(name removed)@ABINOTES

01/07/2003 07:29 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

they do start early im the morning dont they lol

 

[Felix]

Polo2k - we are comparing the 130 diesel and the 150 diesel, so all your points while still valid, apply to both cars. If we were comparing petrol to diesel then that would be a good point, but these are both diesel cars.

Thanks for your interest in the subject though.

Oh and a very warm welcome to the forum. []

 

[Pottsy]

Polo 2K:

http://www.btinternet.com/~apotts/bhp

Power is power, torque is the route to power, but you can't compare torques!

Pottsy

 

[Hugh]

Felix, 2 quick things...

Cheers for changing the name on the Meets thread and, []

NEVER let me get into an argument with you! []

I wish you the very best of luck with this. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and the other 130 drivers.

 

[Ricardo]

Felix, dont know how relevant this is but, reading the talk of anni insurance, have been on to sainsbury insurance, and got an online quote, the same price for my standard 130 and a 150anni.

Wheres this going no premium for the anni, which I would imagine would be more risky than the 150.??

My details are 29yr, NE3, 9yrPNCB, 20K pa, Class1, standard cars.