Stage 3 Garrett GTX1752/56 Hybrid Turbo... what next?

8124 Views 16 Replies 7 Participants Last post by black4motion, May 15, 2015

Robby_

Discussion Starter · May 14, 2015 (Edited by Moderator)

4

Once the turbo blew on my Anni I decided that instead of replacing for another standard turbo, I'd bite the bullet and fork out for a big hybrid - I'd end up doing it somewhere down the line! Luckily, there's a guy that lives close by that sells and refurbs turbos and I picked up this baby for around £600 + p/x of my blown one. Found out the reason my original turbo had died was because the oil feed line had somehow bent/kinked and restricted the oil flow.

Album:

http://imgur.com/lS2dR

I went from 161bhp to 223bhp after installing the turbo and getting a remap @1.8 BAR, and so far not a single problem with leaks! I didn't go for an overly aggressive map so there's still room for more down the line.

Just wondering what steps I should take next to get the most out of this without putting too much stress on certain parts or restricting the turbo. I've already got a decat 2.5" turboback custom exhaust and got rid of that horrid EGR.

When it comes to the mechanical side of cars, I'm a pure beginner with some basic knowledge, one of the main reasons I joined up here! Any tips would be appreciated.

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1 - 17 of 17 Posts

Booster

· #2 · May 14, 2015

Nothing more you can do, that hybrid is pretty maxed out for air flow and your injectors are maxed out. More fuel will make it smoke and more boost will kill the turbo. Time to enjoy

Robby_

Discussion Starter · #3 · May 14, 2015 (Edited by Moderator)

Oh enjoy I do and enjoy I will! Having no traction control makes feathering the throttle a fun game! Mainly when the turbo kicks in around 2k.

So if I upgrade to bigger injectors is there anything to worry about upgrading with it or is it fairly plain sailing? One concern is the clutch but, to be fair, its a rarity that I use the power especially in the lower gears.

Cheers!

Edit: how was the hard pipe kit from Darkside for fitting? Best off getting access to a lift for an afternoon before attempting?

Booster

· #4 · May 14, 2015

If you are still on a stock clutch you will need a stronger one.
Bigger nozzles will just create smoke and no more power 1756 tops out at the power levels you have.

The darkside kit can be fitted on the drive but if you can get a lift for half a day it will make the job a little easier.

stevenbmkiv

· #5 · May 14, 2015 (Edited by Moderator)

As above, you are maxed out now.

The next stage will involve pretty much everything, turbo, injectors, FMIC, single mass flywheel/uprated clutch kit, strengthtened selector fork, tubular manifold, larger bore downpipe, uprated map sensor, oil feed/return pipes, reprogrammed ecu/rolling road, LSD in your gearbox to stop you torque steering all over the place, uprated brakes all round, uprated suspension all round, uprated tyres all round.....and a race cam if you wanted. As you may know, this will be serious money. I know...I've done it.

Then it gets hyper expensive if you want to go down the engine rebuild route with forged pistions, uprated vales etc, ported head.

Consider how long you want to keep the car for and resale value. I'll never get my money back on my mods....but I'm happy with the choice I made to do the work.

ps Your torque curve rises, falls and rises again. See if you can get a map with a more even curve.

Where did you get it done?

Robby_

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 14, 2015 (Edited by Moderator)

Booster said:
If you are still on a stock clutch you will need a stronger one.
Bigger nozzles will just create smoke and no more power 1756 tops out at the power levels you have.

The darkside kit can be fitted on the drive but if you can get a lift for half a day it will make the job a little easier.

stevenbmkiv said:
As above, you are maxed out now.
The next stage will involve pretty much everything, turbo, injectors, FMIC, single mass flywheel/uprated clutch kit, strengthtened selector fork, tubular manifold, larger bore downpipe, uprated map sensor, oil feed/return pipes, reprogrammed ecu/rolling road, LSD in your gearbox to stop you torque steering all over the place, uprated brakes all round, uprated suspension all round, uprated tyres all round.....and a race cam if you wanted. As you may know, this will be serious money. I know...I've done it.
Then it gets hyper expensive if you want to go down the engine rebuild route with forged pistions, uprated vales etc, ported head.

Consider how long you want to keep the car for and resale value. I'll never get my money back on my mods....but I'm happy with the choice I made to do the work.

ps Your torque curve rises, falls and rises again. See if you can get a map with a more even curve.
Where did you get it done?

LSD in the gearbox, sounds trippy! But seriously, sounds like I'm at my potential limit going off what you've said there. How much would all that add up to? At least 5 grand? But I suppose the outcome would be amazing! After the blood sweat and tears...

I got my map done at a local place called MapTech. Where would you recommend?

Also, is 1.8 BAR as far as you'd go with that turbo? This is the description of the turbo and it was rated at being able to reach 240bhp+:

PROFESSIONALLY CLEANED\OVERHAULED AND UPGRADED to GT1752/56 Spec Stage 3 Quick spool version (Uprated main bearings, 360deg large pad thrust bearing, balanced to higher tolerance,Larger high flow\Pressure Billet, extended tip Racing compressor wheel, capable of 240+bhp, with all correct engine modifications)

150BHP 2000 ONWARDS

GARRETT NO. 720855-1 to10 and 721021-1 to10

ENGINE CODE - ASZ and ARL

VW OE PART NUMBER FOR THIS TURBO IS - 03G253016Q and 038253016G

Booster

· #7 · May 15, 2015

Turbo sales info is the theoretical max power which is impossible to achieve. Have a chat with @Bobby_Singh from BSR he is about one of the best if not the best tdi tuner in the country. The maps he produces pull hard to the redline and keep smoke levels low. With tdi tuning it is all about the area under the curve rather than the dyno queen peak figures.

Reactions: 1

black4motion

· #8 · May 15, 2015

ill second what booster said speak to bobby cant do enough for you although he does keep planting seeds in my head about hybrid gtb2260s and even bigger injectors I trust him 100 percent hes just sorted ported head highlft cam bigger valves for me if I didn't trust him I wouldn't have sent him a large amount of money when I haven't actually met him had my car all weekend when I was at work let me know the progress on a daily basis

paul

Reactions: 1

Bobby_Singh

· #9 · May 15, 2015

Thanks for the kind words guys

Paul - is that head on yet? - Looking forward to seeing what it does.

As for this hybrid tune i could make it smoother and smokefree but as mentioned already you will not get any more power.

If you have VCDS you could post channel 004 logs from 1500rpm to 4200rpm and we can see if there is any more head room for extra power.

PM the logs if you dont want to post.

Cheers

PokerProTDI150

· #10 · May 15, 2015

Bobby is the man, he supplied, fitted and custom mapped my pd150 and did a great job.

I will be retuning to him for a 2260 upgrade at some point this yr.

I ran a pd150 hybrid turbo on a pd130 with allard fmic and "stuff" ... it saw results on dynos vary from 210-220 bhp. It was only a little quicker than my custom mapped standard turbo pd150 which also is better to drive as a daily as it still has all its low down torque, unlike the hybrid.

Reactions: 1

stevenbmkiv

· #11 · May 15, 2015

Robby_ said:
LSD in the gearbox, sounds trippy! But seriously, sounds like I'm at my potential limit going off what you've said there. How much would all that add up to? At least 5 grand? But I suppose the outcome would be amazing! After the blood sweat and tears...

I got my map done at a local place called MapTech. Where would you recommend?

Also, is 1.8 BAR as far as you'd go with that turbo? This is the description of the turbo and it was rated at being able to reach 240bhp+:

Cost depends on what you have done and where you go. I didn't go to Bobby and probably paid more at Darkside but I was unaware of Bobby at the time so didn't know.

When you upgrade your power your chassis/braking ability needs to match it too. bear this in mind.

The LSD makes the car feel more balanced. I can glide diagonally across the road with a balance of power just nicely. Great fun.

Bobby has my car now and is looking into fettling with the set up of turbo/ecu for optimum performance with longevity of parts also in mind. I totally trust him given peoples feedback and from meeting him and his knowledge and understanding.

Save you money and go for it. I love my sleeper Golf.

Robby_

Discussion Starter · #12 · May 15, 2015

Bobby_Singh said:
Thanks for the kind words guys

Paul - is that head on yet? - Looking forward to seeing what it does.

As for this hybrid tune i could make it smoother and smokefree but as mentioned already you will not get any more power.

If you have VCDS you could post channel 004 logs from 1500rpm to 4200rpm and we can see if there is any more head room for extra power.

PM the logs if you dont want to post.

Cheers

Thanks for replying Bobby

and cheers guys for referencing him.

Sounds like you're the go-to-guy around here! With you being from down in London (4 hour trek) I may wait until I decide to upgrade even more or not. The map I have on for now is completely fine for what I use the car for at the moment, but it's inevitable that I'll eventually want more haha. Am I ok to contact you with queries now and then?

But yeah, I'd definitely rather a smooth curve that delivers power right through than a bigger number!

stevenbmkiv said:
Cost depends on what you have done and where you go. I didn't go to Bobby and probably paid more at Darkside but I was unaware of Bobby at the time so didn't know.
When you upgrade your power your chassis/braking ability needs to match it too. bear this in mind.
The LSD makes the car feel more balanced. I can glide diagonally across the road with a balance of power just nicely. Great fun.

Bobby has my car now and is looking into fettling with the set up of turbo/ecu for optimum performance with longevity of parts also in mind. I totally trust him given peoples feedback and from meeting him and his knowledge and understanding.

Save you money and go for it. I love my sleeper Golf.

The disks as standard are 312mm and 256mm so I think I'm good there. I definitely need to get off these terrible JOM's though, not a fan, it was just a 'shit no money' moment and it needed doing. I'm stuck in two minds between air and the ~£750 Billstein/Eibach Shocks and Springs. The 0% interest finance deals on air make it a painfully possible choice though!

Thanks for the comments guys, it really helps!

stevenbmkiv

· #13 · May 15, 2015

Darkside will do a good map too they are also a good place to go and know their stuff inside out. Being Barnsley might make it more manageable for you to visit too.

Sounds like your brake set up is ok.

I'm running the following braking parts

Octavia VRS Mk1 256mm Rear brakes, EBC Ultimax 256mm Ventilated Discs
DBA Street Groove 312mm Front Discs
EBC Red Stuff Pads All Round
HEL Braided Front Brake Lines

Ideal for road use. For track use a bigger brake set up would be needed.

At the mo I'm running 281 and 425ftlbs but Bobby will probably tone it down a little with longevity in mind so even a 270bhp drop will probably reduce smoke a fair amount.

My set up FYI.

http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/golf-mk4-pd130-1-9-8v-asz/

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Nate_G

· #14 · May 15, 2015

That graph looks a bit messy.

A better map would make more use of what you have, peak power won't be increase much if any at all but you will have a much more usable torque band and more area to play with making a quicker car.

Robby_

Discussion Starter · #15 · May 15, 2015

stevenbmkiv said:
Darkside will do a good map too they are also a good place to go and know their stuff inside out. Being Barnsley might make it more manageable for you to visit too.

Sounds like your brake set up is ok.

I'm running the following braking parts
Octavia VRS Mk1 256mm Rear brakes, EBC Ultimax 256mm Ventilated Discs
DBA Street Groove 312mm Front Discs
EBC Red Stuff Pads All Round
HEL Braided Front Brake Lines

Ideal for road use. For track use a bigger brake set up would be needed.
At the mo I'm running 281 and 425ftlbs but Bobby will probably tone it down a little with longevity in mind so even a 270bhp drop will probably reduce smoke a fair amount.

My set up FYI.
http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/golf-mk4-pd130-1-9-8v-asz/

Dark side are an option still but I do have a friend at uni in West London so could double up the trip as a social! Win win. For the £120 (friend of a friend) I paid for dyno before and after including the map, its not bad at all! I couldn't just bolt on the turbo and leave it standard. That'd be just wrong... :L

That setup looks pretty good! How long did all that take you? And was it DIY or expensive fitting costs?

Nate_G said:
That graph looks a bit messy.

A better map would make more use of what you have, peak power won't be increase much if any at all but you will have a much more usable torque band and more area to play with making a quicker car.

Yeah like I said, I'd much prefer that! The place I went to do brilliant standard maps and usually specialise in BMW and Porsche's so I suppose its understandable that this map isn't as good. They tend to do a lot of efficiency maps too from what I've been told.

stevenbmkiv

· #16 · May 15, 2015

I paid Darkside to fit the parts as I don't have access to things like ramps and hefty tools etc.

Plus I paid for their experience in fitting and setting up the latest kit. It's been totally reliable for 13 months now.

Bobby is fine tuning things while he's doing my timing belt kit as things do change after a period of time. It's a case of keeping things regularly checked too once all the mods are fitted.

black4motion

· #17 · May 15, 2015

hi bobby heads not on yet weeks away yet due to other jobs I want to do first and other commitments ill be in touch as soon as its

on paul

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