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Hi

I was at Big Boys Toys yesterday having 18" RS's and Eibach springs fitted to my Mk5 GTI and speaking to the guys there they said the REVO upgrade will be available from Monday for the GTI. They also said it was producing as much as 60bhp extra in tests (not sure about torque). Cost will be ?499 + VAT.

(please don't take this as gospel as I was just chatting!).

Sean
 

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Intresting.

I havent heard anything from REVO myself yet. I think Big Boys toys get things a little earlier than most REVO dealers. I think this is because they are one of the bigger dealerships now.

Keith
 

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Sure is mate, There are a few companies around now offering serial port tuning but only a couple with a genuine serial port switching between stock and Performance modes.

Keith
 

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keith

Usual question....

Is the software detectable to the dealer in standard mode ?, and do you know if the conversion is ok on dsg cars ?

thanks
 

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Hi,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p> </o:p>

We have started taking enquiries from Mk5 GTi owners with DSG equipped cars already and my colleague spoke with REVO with regards to this very question. <o:p> </o:p>

It is currently our understanding that REVO should have no effect on the DSG operation and should work fine with it.

REVO have had a 3.2 VR6 equipped with DSG in and all has been ok on that. Whether or not this means that all will be OK on the Mk5 GTi with DSG I cannot answer for definite yet.

Once REVO release the code to us I will ask some of the questions I have about it.<o:p> </o:p>

With regards to detecting it, Again as I have not got my hands on it yet I cant say for definite but If it works as per all the other REVO software items then if it is in stock mode it will be un-detectable. <o:p> </o:p>

However (I need to say this bit) if a dealer is determined there is nothing stopping them from buying an SPS device and using that to see if the car has it fitted (Though I do not and have not heard of this happening yet)<o:p> </o:p>

Hope this answers your questions.<o:p> </o:p>

Keith

www.Jkm.org.uk
 

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Great thanks for the info, i would certainly be interested, if possible could you update this thread when you have heard and i will probable be in touch to get booked in.

Thanks
 

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<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>

With regards to detecting it, Again as I have not got my hands on it yet I cant say for definite but If it works as per all the other REVO software items then if it is in stock mode it will be un-detectable. <o:p> </o:p>

http://www.jkm.org.uk/
As a Revo customer it worries me when there are claims of "undetectable". The software is not undetectable, even when reverted back to standard. The dealer could do a check sum to see if the program is different to stock. It is unlikely that this would be done, but I would assume that in a major warranty claim or a major accident programming will be checked. I feel that by saying undetectable you are giving a false impression and possibly suggestion to people that they need not tell their insurance company. As a Revo dealer if VW refused a warranty, would you cover the costs?
 

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Hi Milkfloat,

Sorry for my un-clear answer, I can understand and appreciate your concerns.
I have spoken with many of my customers face to face and shown and explained what VW do during a service etc to check for software versions and how they look for Error codes etc etc
If REVO is set to standard mode, as far as what VW technicians do during a ?Normal service? the code will be un-detectable.
I know that the software checksums can be verified by doing a complete EPROM download, and this obviously will not be as per a stock GTi as the REVO code is sitting on the EPROM as well.

VW etc are well aware of software being altered on cars and may be looking more often than I know, but I would be surprised if a dealer where going to the effort of downloading every cars EPROM content and doing a checksum comparison etc.
There is nothing stopping VW from buying an SPS1 device for ?149+VAT and checking every car for REVO, I do explain this as well to customers.

JKM and REVO are by no way suggesting that you do not tell your insurance company.

It is your decision if you choose to tell a VW dealership.

I am sorry for my misguidance if it has confused anyone.

Keith
 

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I think we need to be realistic about what a tec at a vw dealership would be likely to do, sure they will run a checksum check everytime they download or probably connect to the ECU. Checksum can be and are 'adjusted' to equal a required number in this situation. Not to mention that there are different levels of checksum calculation, depending on how thorough or potentially error prone the downloading system is. The reason the checksum check is run is to validate that the code has not been corrupted during download, not to check that someone might be using a different map.

A likely situation is that the hardware availibe in the VW dealership cannot download the complete Ram from the ecu, if they can download anything it will be set by a memory address, i.e. the normal VW code resides from 00 to FF FF FF FF for example. They would then have to compare the value at each mem address in turn to find differences as the check sum would be the same.

If revo uses spare areas of memory (empty areas) to store code which can be switched in and out, the chances are these areas will never be read during a upload as they will be regarded as empty and hence ignored.

The reason tuners say that there code is undetactable is that from the workshop tec it will be becuase the checksum for the relevant area of memory will match what they expect to see. . The only way they could find the revo aditional code is to read the contents of the entire Ram, and checksum that. It would also have to be noted that VW during download would have to fill the empty memory areas with a know value or again any checksum would not be relevant.

I don't think keith is wrong to say undetectable, under a normal VW dealer based inspection it would be, and if it didn't feel any quicker than normal there really wouldn't be any reason to do the above.

from my point of view working in embedded software i am more concerned about someone finding my car has been modded by driving it and it going like stink, rather than doing a entire ECU memory dump and reading it byte by byte.
 

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"working in embedded software "

Doc, I thought that your knowledge on this area was high having read your post through !

Thanks for the technical answer.

Keith
 

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"working in embedded software "

Doc, I thought that your knowledge on this area was high having read your post through !

Thanks for the technical answer.

Keith
No worries, i will take my anorak off now ! ;-)

The reason i piped up is that i do not think you are wrong to be telling people it is undectable, in 99 out of 100 VW inspections it will be, sure if they have hardware that will look for it, which i doubt (and revo/superchips etc would have heard about it if they had) or if a software engineer who moon lights as at VW took some hardware of his own along to work they may find something. But other than that the biggest prob could be with the guy test driving it and ending up in the bushes on a wet roundabout as the unexpalined power surge arrives ! :)
 

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The new ECU's in mk5 Golf (atleast 2.0 TDI) store the amount of times
software has been flashed. And what I have heard is that you cannot set
this value back to original.
 

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The new ECU's in mk5 Golf (atleast 2.0 TDI) store the amount of times
software has been flashed. And what I have heard is that you cannot set
this value back to original.
Ack [:(] I was hoping to use one of those SPS units to revert back factory settings.
 

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The problem is that it is detectable. OK, in 99 times out a hundred the technicians will not bother. However if you have a major warranty claim or a huge insurance claim it would make sense to check. If the rest of the car is modified, there would be a fair chance that the ECU has been played with. VW are not stupid, they are fully aware that ECU Tweaking takes place. It would be very simple for them to write software that will download the entire ECU contents and compare it to stock, they would even easier just see if the unused areas actually have anything in their. I think that generally they will not bother as time is money and also they do not want a reputation that they will not honour warranty claims. Insurance companies on the other hand are also clever, they will do anything they can to avoid paying out, especially for a large claim. There has always been questions on the forum such as "Should I tell my insurance company?" I think that promoting that the software is undetectable will only encourage people to take the risk.

The long and the short of it is that it is detectable (although unlikely), and claims should not be made that it is undetectable.
 

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Slightly off topic, but is the REVO code for the 2.0TDI still expected in the next few weeks?
Heh they've been saying that for months now Col [:)]
I had an email today from REVO to say that unexpected troubles have been encountered with the 2.0TDI tuning. Speaking with them on the phone it transpires that the trouble lies with the ability to switch the map on and off. Due to this they are reworking their product to provide the usual features expected from REVO. 2.0TDI tuning from REVO is now due to be released in early November.
 
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