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I read those same threads last night as it happens. Did you find them both linked from another vortex thread? It might have been one that I was posting in.

You need to read that stuff carefully, but it seems poly bushes are ok for 'some' suspension joints, but by no means all of them (It was news to me too). And I read that using Audi TT/S3 bushings was the best compromise, as they are supposedly much better than the VW items.
So, after reading all that, im planning to use a mixture of poly (mostly for the non cotton real shaped bushings) and Audi items for the rest.
 

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Oh, and those articles mainly discuss the rear suspension..

Heres another interesting one talking about the front..
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2407527

Going back to the rear suspension tho.. I'd not get too excited about those spherical bearings they talk about. For a start, it would be vibe city, which personally i could not live with, and im not convinced they will last long either. On top of that, they dont look like they allow the suspension components to move in all the directions that it was designed for. At least for road use anyway. For race cars it would be a different matter.
 

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Very interesting discussion there - would anyone who's got poly bushes on their car care to have a look and comment on the wear that they've suffered if anything.

Has anyone done the S3/TT bushes on their car? If so then what's the choice for the rear bushes as there isn't a high perfromance 2wd version to choose from?

What are the part numbers for those bushes and do the ones for the alloy (4wd) wishbones fit the steel (2wd) ones or is it a guess as 'they're all the same anyway'.....

I'm planning to change all the bushes this year and want to do it completely informed so I'm aware of any potential issues. If it takes 5 years for the poly bushes to wear appreciably then it's an acceptable mod to me for the decreased compliance in those bushes.
 

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Done some research on this.....

MkIV TDi Group N - racing homologation papers show the following part numbers:

Wishbone bushes:

  • Fr - 1JO 407 182
  • R - 1JO 407 181

Rear Beam bushes

  • 1JV 501 401

My questions are:

Can these be bought over the counter from any VW dealer?
Would someone like OEM parts be able to source cheaply?
Is there any difference to the std part numbers - (i.e. does the Gp N homologation mean that only std parts are used?)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Apologies i can see how the title of the thread is confusing, i only meant in relation the rears axle bushes. (although poly bushing the entire car would compromise the ride quality, quite a bit, but thats for another thread).

I'd not get too excited about those spherical bearings they talk about. For a start, it would be vibe city, which personally i could not live with, and im not convinced they will last long either.
The threads do discuss an increase in noise form the solid spherical bearings but equate the noise to putting on an aftermarket exhaust (and if you have one already you would prob not notice?) and are no harsher than having poly bushes installed in the rear beam.

On top of that, they dont look like they allow the suspension components to move in all the directions that it was designed for. At least for road use anyway. For race cars it would be a different matter.
The idea of the spherical bearings is that it does allow the full range of movement for the axel up and down, but to eliminate the side to side wallow of the standard 'soft' rubber bushes, which the poly bushes also try to do. Afterall thats the point of fitting poly bushes. The problem with poly bushes (in the rear axle) is they bind the axle limiting the up and down movement and because they move differently in the bush carrier they actually, over a period of time, pick up grit and actually increase the diameter of hole by a grinding action

The downside of the sphericals is that the centre bearing wears and needs to be replaced, but from what i have read it is a case of dropping the beam enough (an inch or two) removing a circlip and knocking out the centre bearing and reversing the proceedure to refit a new bearing. The guy posting said minutes apposed to hours for the 'overhaul'.

It kinda makes the stock rear bushes look like consumable items. They work in the correct way for the range of movement of the rear axle, but are not ldeal for a 'fast road' application due to side to side movement. Poly bushes tighten things up, but grind,bind and limit the axle wearing it out in, to me, an unacceptable fashion. Spherical bearings offer the ideal performance solution at the cost of an increase in road noise and servicing.

Ooooh what a predicament. The damn thread has thown a spanner in the rear beam solution for me!

Discuss gurus
 

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I've just replaced my rear axle bushes and the new ones i bought from my local vw stealer were definitely different to the ones that came out.  The rubber internals are a different shape and the outer casing seems different.  On the old ones the outer is made from metal, had to get this out with a coal chisel, and on the new ones it looks like it's made from a very tough nylon material.  In the end, to get the new ones in, we made up a tool with some threaded bar and not much more than a big washer and nut on each end, when the nuts are tightened, the bush pulls into place.  Whole thing took approx 2 hours and the bushes cost about ?35, so even if they are consumable and have to be done every 50k or so, I can think of worse things!!  Can probably post a picture of the tool if anyones interested??
 

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Hi,

A reasonable solution would be a spherical bearing mounted in a small amount of rubber or polyuretane. The cost of (good quality) spherical bearings of a decent size is quite high and will still not last very long before 'clonking' will start to appear. In my experience spherical bearings are great for race car suspension where noise and durability are not important. The only applications I find acceptable for road use is anti-roll bar drop links and possibly top mounts if they are bonded in polyurethane or rubber.

cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I've just replaced?my rear axle bushes and the new ones i bought from my local vw stealer were definitely different to the ones that came out.? The rubber internals are a different shape and?the outer casing seems different.? On the old ones the outer is made from metal, had to get this out with a coal chisel, and on the new ones it looks like it's?made from a very tough nylon material.? In the end, to get the new ones in, we made up a tool with some threaded bar and not much more than a big washer and nut on each end, when the nuts are tightened, the bush pulls into place.? Whole thing took approx 2 hours and the bushes cost about ?35, so even if they are consumable and have to be done every 50k or so, I can think of worse things!!? Can probably post a picture of the tool if anyones interested??
tdi110 do you have the part numbers, and a pic of the tool would be great. I must admit i have been leaning towards the original rubbers and adding a rear bar and softening my shocks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi,

A reasonable solution would be a spherical bearing mounted in a small amount of rubber or polyuretane.
Or even shimming the plate to the body with some material to absorb some bad vibes. The problem, with spherical bearings, is the increased servicing. Like its been said, fine for the track, but is a bit too 'ultimate road' set up for me if you catch my drift. Great articles though makes for a properly informed decision about which way to go (imho)

(damn ie7 beta is making the posts go funny)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
with you on that ct.p and so is the Merc mechanic that pointed me in the direction of the piece. He was looking to put poly bushes in his A4 and gf's Mk4 V5 but is going with the original items now.
 

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My are still the stock items having now covered 114k and to be honest I don't think they are that bad. Also passed it's MOT last week with not a mention or any advise about them.

I'd like to more about the solid or rubber VW items that you need to fit in lieu of the hydraulic ones that are in from the factory, but as the old addage goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
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