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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Didnt really know where to post this since we dont have a Passat section but I was wondering if anyone who has access to the VAG parts list could check on the part number for the turbo from the new 170 TDI Passat and compare it with the existing 140 TDI Turbo. As this engine will soon be going into a Golf im curious to see if they've given it a different turbo. 
 

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lol, yeah tempted is the word.

I'd just like to see what VW are going to offer by way of the 170 diesel before I spend any serious money on mine. If its the same turbo as the 140 then I'd struggle to see the point in trading up when a new turbo and remap will easily beat it.
 

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There might be some other internal changes, on the old Zetec petrol engines the difference between the 115 and 130 version was ECU, cams and mods to the pistons inc oil jets cooling them down. On the TDCi engine, the difference between the 100ps version and 115ps was purley software. If you knew a decent and friendly Ford mechanic they could upgrade it for you - although chances of finding such a mechanic would be rare !!!!

Any idea whta torque the 170is producing ? and I wonder if VW have beefed up the gearbox ? I've read that the next vectra has a twin turbo diesel but the limiting factor is the gearbox. I'd like to crack 200bhp and 300lb ft torque
 

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I'm sure I read somewhere that the PD170 was getting the new Piezo Injector Unit that VW & Siemens have developed.

The VAG V6 TDI 3.0 found in the new A4, A6, A8, Tourag, Phaeton, Passat etc was the first to have these.
 

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I'm sure I read somewhere that the PD170 was getting the new Piezo Injector Unit that VW & Siemens have developed.

The VAG V6 TDI 3.0 found in the new A4, A6, A8, Tourag, Phaeton, Passat etc was the first to have these.
Yep, I believe this is true. The 170ps engine will have Piezo injectors. Does this mean VAG are binning the PD unit injectors and going common rail like all other manufacturers ?. As far as I am aware that's the layout of the 3.0 ltr TDI V6.
 

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Taken from Audi UK site on 3.0 TDI V6 engine.

'Common rail direct injection, 1600 bar with piezo injectors, seven-hole injector nozzles, VTG turbocharger with intercooler, swirl and tangential intake ports, swirl port regulated Bosch EDC-16CP+, volume, injection start, charge pressure, EGR control CAN bus.'

So it seems the new 170ps TDI will be common rail not PD. So the engine / turbo will be completely different and most certainly quieter.

One problem though, the EDC-16CP+ is apparently uncrackable so 'chipping' this lump will be ages off, if ever at all.
 

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Someone will crack it. Comman Rail is a good thing. You only had to listen to a Focus TDCi against my 140GT on the rolling road to notice the difference. Its huge.
 

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Someone will crack it. Comman Rail is a good thing. You only had to listen to a Focus TDCi against my 140GT on the rolling road to notice the difference. Its huge.
For sure, but it will take a while. Forge have only just cracked serial porting the 2.0 140pd and that lump has been out 2 years +.

Yes VAG had the edge years ago going the PD unit injector route, but new coomon rail with piezo injectors have caught up on power / torque and as you say are far superior at hiding the 'tractor' effect.

Will VAG carry on under rating their power figures for diesels though. The 140ps consistently puts out 152-154ps on various rolling roads whereas their petrols hit about waht they quote on the same rollers. I have the A3 2.0 TDI DSG Sport, and it's defo got more than 140 ponies.
 

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Mine gave 148 bhp, on the Focus you cannot push them past 145bhp, it seems the ECU is the limiting factor, lets hope the same doesn't happen for the VW.
 

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You can get 188bhp from the 140 reliably.......i'm a case in point........

The new technology being used by VW is indeed Piezo-Pumpe-Duse (PPD) and uses a totally new ECU as well........

I have the VW technical manual on pdf if anyone wants to see more.......you nerdy lot !!!! LOL [8-|]
 

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You can get 188bhp from the 140 reliably.......i'm a case in point........

The new technology being used by VW is indeed Piezo-Pumpe-Duse (PPD) and uses a totally new ECU as well........

I have the VW technical manual on pdf if anyone wants to see more.......you nerdy lot !!!! LOL [8-|]
So it seems that for the upper segment A4, A6 etc they have gone to common rail, probably for refinement. While the Golf / A3 / Passat sticks with an improved version of PD unit injectors, strange ! Or rather all transverse platforms get PPD while longitudinal get common rail.
 

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You can get 188bhp from the 140 reliably.......i'm a case in point........

The new technology being used by VW is indeed Piezo-Pumpe-Duse (PPD) and uses a totally new ECU as well........

I have the VW technical manual on pdf if anyone wants to see more.......you nerdy lot !!!! LOL [8-|]
Where did you get the manual [;)]

But yeah its just the same PD system with more efficient injectors, the piezo crystals are far quicker and more reliable than a solenoid allowing for a greater control of the injection cycle, obviously greater tuning possibilities all round.
 

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In addition to the Piezo injectors it's also going to be fitted with an exhaust particle filter. I'm interested in that item to eliminate heavy smoking on acceleration.

My 140TDi was fitted with AMD stage 2 from new. Standard output at new was 147 bhp with ECU re-map it plus Miltek exhaust it's now 195 bhp output.

Trouble is the smoking on acceleration. This is the giveaway on all re-mapped diesels...

I'm hoping to fit the Piezo injectors plus the particle filter to mine once the parts are avaiable and get AMD to re-check mappings!

Steve
 

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My 2p

1) 195bhp........really?

2) Smoke a giveaway on ALL remapped TDis.........really?

3) Fitting piezo injectors and particle filter to yours............ at the risk of repeating myself once more....oh i'm gonna......REALLY??

...............................

1) Realistically a PD140 with stock turbo and milltek plus decat (like mine in fact) - you're looking at mid/high 180's

2) If the map makes your car smoke so badly, it's a poor old show.......go back and ask the tuner to be less heavy-handed

3) If you fit the PPD injectors you'll also have to change the ECU, plus some ancillaries I think.

Milltek have developed their own particle filters for the tuned diesel market - and they sap a considerably lot less power than the OEM ones.......these were developed mainly on the VW .:Racing Caddy van.
 

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My 2p - thanks Foxy..

1) 195bhp........really? well that's what the rolling road print-out indicates...well 194.6 to be exact...

2) Smoke a giveaway on ALL remapped TDis.........really? Perhaps not ALL, but those that I've seen on heavy acceleration...

3) Fitting piezo injectors and particle filter to yours............ at the risk of repeating myself once more....oh i'm gonna......REALLY?? Yes, once I know they will fit, but not if if needs large modifications with ECU etc as you stated below. I've being asking Miltek for 12 months on availability of Particle filter with hi-flow cat. Once AMD are happy with it, then I'll fit it!

...............................

1) Realistically a PD140 with stock turbo and milltek plus decat (like mine in fact) - you're looking at mid/high 180's. Mine mapped at 186 with ecu-remap only - with standard exhaust and standard cat. Miltek cat-back was fitted later.

2) If the map makes your car smoke so badly, it's a poor old show.......go back and ask the tuner to be less heavy-handed..only on heavy acceleration to which my belief is the particle filter will do the job

3) If you fit the PPD injectors you'll also have to change the ECU, plus some ancillaries I think. . That's a shame, if I can fit without the ECU I'll do it, but if not then I'll just go for particle filter fitment.

Milltek have developed their own particle filters for the tuned diesel market - and they sap a considerably lot less power than the OEM ones.......these were developed mainly on the VW .:Racing Caddy van. As above, I've been in discussion direct with Miltek/AMD since last October waiting for a hi-flow CAT/Particle filter fitment for my car. So far they've not advised its ready but in testing still....
 
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