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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After that ship grounded itself, what do you think of people scavaging all the bits and pieces in the containers and that's being washed up?

I feel sorry for the family that I think are in South Africa and getting their stuff sent over, we saw 3 lads on TV breaking into boxes and chucking their stuff out looking for valuables and discarding the rest. They were laughing as they did it. The family in south africa just had to watch on .

However, think it's a good thing and good on them that they are grabbing barrels of whisky / wine etc. Grabbing nappies galore. Seen people really struggling up the beach with gearboxes and engines! Also windscreens.

All that stuff would have been discarded. The nappies they would not have sold on as they have been contaminated. The alcohol they could not sell on. Sea water gearboxes they can't use. Not sure about windscreens.

So what do you think? The government have suddenly changed the law so that people looting now on the beach can be arrested and fined. Whereas before this, was the law that if something is washed up, it's finders keepers.

I bet the looters are wishing a few more containers would drop off though! Just look at all that cargo!

I was going to go down and see what it's all about but can't be bothered anymore now they are stopping it all. So what do you think? Should it be illegal or is it better that all this stuff is getting used? Couple of people even got whole motorbikes.
 

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It was never finders keepers, there's some law that goes back to the 1500's or so that was brought in because shipwrecks spilling cargo was a lot more frequent then.  New laws have to go through parliament and take ages to pass.  You can recover the goods and store them but you then have to declare them and get them back to the owner, most likely for a reward depending on effort.  Wheeling a motorbike off the beach and to your house isn't classed as much effort!
 

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Like you I do have an issue with people taking personal belongings. But the problem is if you are going to rip open a container on a beach you don't know before hand whether the boxes inside are a commerical load, or someones personal stuff. So do you ban it at all? I don't know.

I think we have a romantic view of smugglers by firelight from the 16th Century and I would have thought the people then were local people. But we now have gangs coming from all over the country, and who knows what the profits from their finds will go to fund, drugs/guns?

The other problem I have is the state that people have left the beach in, again it's not helping the clean up operation.

I don't think they have changed the law because it has never been 'finders keepers'. If you do find salvage on the beach you have to declare it, much like lost property. Then before 28days are up the rightful owner, whether this was the shipper/ the reciever or the insurance company can ask for the item back. After that point it is pretty much up to you what you do with it.

I would think those with motorbikes will have problems selling them on, whether it is legal or not. Surley there is no paperwork shipped with the actual bike so how will they register them? And if they find a way then the tax man will want some tax for importing it!
 

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I can't believe that people are nicking nappies that are potentially contaminated with chemicals to save a few quid! Same goes for the barrels of whisky (though that's a bit more tempting!). Foolish, if you ask me. As for the rest of the things that are being nicked, imagine you've had a car crash and your car is left at the side of road, undriveable. Does this mean that people can help themselves to parts from your car? No, of course not. The fact that the contents will probably be scrapped isn't the point.

Of course, I'm only saying this because I'm jealous that I don't live nearby!
 

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It was never finders keepers, there's some law that goes back to the 1500's or so that was brought in because shipwrecks spilling cargo was a lot more frequent then. New laws have to go through parliament and take ages to pass. You can recover the goods and store them but you then have to declare them and get them back to the owner, most likely for a reward depending on effort. Wheeling a motorbike off the beach and to your house isn't classed as much effort!
Christ, you try wheeling a 250kg 1200 cc BMW in deep sand........................!! Not an easy task!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
We get differing reports because of the locality (I'm relatively close by, under 40 miles I think). Some of the stuff is being washed up on beaches 1 mile away from my parents place. However, this is maybe a pack of nappies here and there.

The locals are complaining about it and now the village is restricted to locals only. But, one of the locals was on TV saying something along the lines of 'Theres nothing left here now, so please stop coming to our village as we can't go about our daily business'. The reporter asked him if he had been down, he stupidly said 'yes, I have 2 motorbikes in the garage, got them on the night it happened, my neighbour and I dragged them up the beach'.

Idiot! So he get's the decent stuff as did most of the locals, leaves the nappies and whisky and then has the cheek to moan on TV about the looters!! hehe, found it funny anyway!

What some people are saying is all this stuff HAS to be scrapped. This is going to come at mine and your expense. I.e. tax payers money. They have nearly 40 coppers down there now to stop looters. All that's now left is nappies, couple of gearboxes (if you can find them) and empty barrels. 40 cops!!!

But new stuff is being washed up everyday. There were a few people down there last night on the TV taking stuff, but also taking rubbish up the beach. They were interviewed and they stated they are taking the nappies and car parts if they can, but also helping by dragging as much as they can up and setting it alight. The police didnt stop them as they were helping by getting rid of all the rubbish.

Funnily enough, can anyone guess who was interviewed on the local TV after going through the south african families stuff?! And said 'not my problem, I didnt nick it did I like'. This is just a joke, but it's true. Was 3 scousers [:D][:p] (don't take it the wrong way, its true!!)
 

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It was never finders keepers, there's some law that goes back to the 1500's or so that was brought in because shipwrecks spilling cargo was a lot more frequent then. New laws have to go through parliament and take ages to pass. You can recover the goods and store them but you then have to declare them and get them back to the owner, most likely for a reward depending on effort. Wheeling a motorbike off the beach and to your house isn't classed as much effort!
Christ, you try wheeling a 250kg 1200 cc BMW in deep sand........................!! Not an easy task!!
It wasn't an opinion, that will be the view of the owners of the property with regards to a reward. Having seen them on TV though, 2 guys together didn't seem to be having much trouble doing it.
 

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IMO they are robbing scum the lot of them.  They should send down the boys from the local army base for a bit of training. 
 

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Funnily enough, can anyone guess who was interviewed on the local TV after going through the south african families stuff?! And said 'not my problem, I didnt nick it did I like'. This is just a joke, but it's true. Was 3 scousers [:D][:p] (don't take it the wrong way, its true!!)
ROFL !!!! Haha [:D]
 

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IMO they are robbing scum the lot of them. They should send down the boys from the local army base for a bit of training.
Although it's robbing either way, if it's someones personal possessions, then I agree, but somehow the motorbikes I feel less "concerned" (for want of a better word) about, I know in the eyes of the law it's stealing whatever, but the fact those bikes belong to a big corporation ie bmw, I kinda think 'good', glad they got something.
 

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"As for the rest of the things that are being nicked, imagine you've had a car crash and your car is left at the side of road, undriveable. Does this mean that people can help themselves to parts from your car?"

I was in a car crash in a country lane, my friend understeered into a tree basically. We walked back a few miles to a local village to call for a friends help by the time we got back to the car after around an hour the CD player and wheels were gone from his car.

Its human nature unfortunately, if people think they can get away with it...
 

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It is theft whichever way you look at it. Especially the way that the "secure" containers have been ripped open, if that had your car parked in the beach car park/shed/garage they had ripped the lock off, then it becomes a very different story i think!
 

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lthough it's robbing either way, if it's someones personal possessions, then I agree, but somehow the motorbikes I feel less "concerned" (for want of a better word) about, I know in the eyes of the law it's stealing whatever, but the fact those bikes belong to a big corporation ie bmw, I kinda think 'good', glad they got something.?
Yeah, its totally okay to steal from a corporation. Just like stealing from rich people, hell they can afford it right? Insurance will cover all of it Im sure but it doesn't make it right to take it IMO,?especially theiving from containers of families posessions. Thats no better than breaking into their house.?
 

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There is a distinct difference between theft and salvage, http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-environmental/mcga-dops_row_receiver_of_wreck/mcga-dops_row_salvage.htm . Taking stuff from a wrecked ship is definitely different to taking stuff from a car that has been crashed and left on the side of the road, and it all relates to maritime law; however if people do not declare what they have salvaged then it can be classed as theft, to be honest it would be more effort for the companies involved to start paying out salvage costs to all these people than it would for them to just write off the goods. Personally I am envious that I dont live closer as I would have gone down and had a look myself, hell I wouldnt mind a motorbike for free. I would have declared it though and filled out the relavent forms, then if BMW wanted it back I would have charged them accordingly.

I guess the problem is that people are treating it as a free for all (which it is) with no regards to the mess they are causing and for their own safety also, i'm sure that some of the locals are annoyed that people are coming down and taking their plunder... as im pretty sure that they would have enjoyed to keep it all to themselves...
 

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Yeah, its totally okay to steal from a corporation. Just like stealing from rich people, hell they can afford it right? Insurance will cover all of it Im sure but it doesn't make it right to take it IMO, especially theiving from containers of families posessions. Thats no better than breaking into their house.
That seems like a rediculous thing to say, of course its different to breaking into their house... and its not a case of faceless corportation or its rich people they can afford it.. hell if BMW were really bothered they would send someone to come and collect all their things.. I wonder if they will be able to get her floating again? and if not it will take some time and skill to remove the remaining containers... hell if the wind gets up again, and more fall into the water it might be worth sneaking down there.. hey mike mate you wouldnt say no to a water logged M5 would you [;)]
 

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As far as I am concerned it is theft. Looting if theft. If it wasn't, they wouldn't have put 40 cops down there in an attempt to stop it.

Yet on the same card, they didn't say it was illegal. Some ancient law I gather. So free for all, people left to scavange unchallenged. However surely the act of opening a closed container constitutes breaking and entering and removing items is theft? If I did it at my local building site one night and nicked all the tools I would be commiting theft, in the same way that a smashed car on the side of the road, even if it is salvage, belongs to someone, so taking parts off it without permission is theft.

Morally its wrong. It belongs to someone, be it a family, a company etc. Some is personal, some is just another cargo. Insurance will cover it, which will cost us. Even if it doesn't, there will be a price rise to cover it. So it will cost us in some way.

BTW, scavanging for nappies that may be contaminated with oil, battery acid and chemicals etc. Just goes to show that we love something for free, even if it is any old crap and it is low. A pallet of gearboxes noone can identify. Great, worth a fortune maybe, but not exactly a fast mover on ebay. But as its free, we must fill our bags and pockets to the brim...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
As far as I am concerned it is theft. Looting if theft. If it wasn't, they wouldn't have put 40 cops down there in an attempt to stop it.

Yet on the same card, they didn't say it was illegal. Some ancient law I gather. So free for all, people left to scavange unchallenged. However surely the act of opening a closed container constitutes breaking and entering and removing items is theft? If I did it at my local building site one night and nicked all the tools I would be commiting theft, in the same way that a smashed car on the side of the road, even if it is salvage, belongs to someone, so taking parts off it without permission is theft.

Morally its wrong. It belongs to someone, be it a family, a company etc. Some is personal, some is just another cargo. Insurance will cover it, which will cost us. Even if it doesn't, there will be a price rise to cover it. So it will cost us in some way.

BTW, scavanging for nappies that may be contaminated with oil, battery acid and chemicals etc. Just goes to show that we love something for free, even if it is any old crap and it is low. A pallet of gearboxes noone can identify. Great, worth a fortune maybe, but not exactly a fast mover on ebay. But as its free, we must fill our bags and pockets to the brim...
Guess where the 'loot' is going now though. Yes, authorities, who will then no doubt sell it on under government auctions.

And have you seen the nappies?! They as dry as a dry thing when dry. So basically not contaminated.
 

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As far as I am concerned it is theft. Looting if theft. If it wasn't, they wouldn't have put 40 cops down there in an attempt to stop it.

Yet on the same card, they didn't say it was illegal. Some ancient law I gather. So free for all, people left to scavange unchallenged. However surely the act of opening a closed container constitutes breaking and entering and removing items is theft? If I did it at my local building site one night and nicked all the tools I would be commiting theft, in the same way that a smashed car on the side of the road, even if it is salvage, belongs to someone, so taking parts off it without permission is theft.

Morally its wrong. It belongs to someone, be it a family, a company etc. Some is personal, some is just another cargo. Insurance will cover it, which will cost us. Even if it doesn't, there will be a price rise to cover it. So it will cost us in some way.

BTW, scavanging for nappies that may be contaminated with oil, battery acid and chemicals etc. Just goes to show that we love something for free, even if it is any old crap and it is low. A pallet of gearboxes noone can identify. Great, worth a fortune maybe, but not exactly a fast mover on ebay. But as its free, we must fill our bags and pockets to the brim...
The police were sent not because of the legality but to try and control the crowds that were turning up, thats why they were sent there, and the end of the day it is a fairly small place and thousands of people turning up to try and get some free stuff off the beach is going to affect the villagers in some shap or form, i mean newquay is bad enough in summer, i cant imagine how much of a pain in the ass, it must be for people who live there... Opening a closed container does not constitute breaking and entering, the same way that opening a box would not constitute breaking and entering... you dont live in a container.. .(unless you are chinese and trying to smuggle yourself into the country [:p])

That would certainly be a shock to someone trying to find a bargin on the beach to open a container thinking they were going to strike it lucky only to find 40 dead immagrants in there...

and businesses are insured against this sort of thing, so one ship getting wrecked is not going to put the prices of things up, and further more do you think that is how all businesses recover costs? It makes me laugh when something like this happens and people say "oh that is going to put prices up etc etc" what do you base this assumption on?
 

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The fact that someone has to pay for the consequences of natural disasters and accidents in some way or another and it always makes it way down the line to us...???

What, you think the people that own or are owed by the stuff, or the insurers, will just write it off against a bad experience?

Opening a closed container that does not belong to you and taking the contents is theft, regardless of ancient and stupid laws that suggest otherwise. In the same way that opening someones packet of smokes and pinching one is theft unless you have their permission...

Taking something that you don't know who owns is theft in my book, and the beach has ended up littered with people too, wanting for something for nothing, more bothered about personal gain than anything else, including the environment.
 
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