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The Golf V has always been expensive[:#]

But you could argue that the GTI competes againt the forthcoming ?25k 130i in the premium sector[*-)]
 

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It does make the Golf look very expensive in comparison and I think that VW are going to have to do something to make the Golf more appealing once the rivals become more available. At the moment VW has had the field very much to itself but once the VXR and the ST are out they are undoubtedly going to take sales away from VW

Maybe discounts will soon be on the cards.............
 

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...Not sure how 'real' the prices are but could make VW assess it's pricing.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=12967
The prices are specs in that link are correct they'll be announced tomorrow by Ford. I have been test driving a white DSG today for 3 hours - was really impressed and I have been really close to ordering but I can't help but think that the ST is maybe worth the wait, especially at ?19.5k for the full spec. The equivalent Golf must be getting close to ?24k (including recaros) - yes residuals on the GTI will be good - but that good?
 

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Does look nice I am currently contemplating the Golf and am heading to Frankfurt next week to look at the R32 where they are also unveliing the Focus ST and now you have mentioned it and I have looked at the Ford Microsite it has to go on the list for consideration.

Currently I am looking at the MKV R32 and GTI, Focus ST (Thanks Mikiew) and the Impreza with the PPP pack. What others have you considered Mikiew?
 

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Forge197 - been looking at the usual suspects -

I don't like the look of the R32 especially the wheels I'd rather have the GTI, plus once you add in the seats and a few options you're looking at ?25k again, and it will be thirsty.

The Impreza isn't holding it's value as well as it used to, although you can buy a new import with 2 years warranty for ?16k!! I also looked at the Astra VXR but enough has probably been said on here about it before.

It was said that Ford sold the Focus RS at a loss of several thousand pounds per car, I'm not suggesting that that's the case with the ST but I know that the normal dealer margin will apply so there's nothing to suggest that you won't be able to knock down the list prices once the dust has settled on the first cars, just as you would with a 1.6LX.

The ST's are due in mid-January, all the first cars will be the Orange colour you see on the press piccies, there were 7 or 8 colours on the list, I'm thinking Diamond White but need to see at least a picture first. There will also be some pre-specced examples available around launch time so even if you haven't ordered until you see the showroom model there should be something available in the system for almost immediate delivery.

May still end up with the GTI yet so I don't want to be too much of a troll here, however anyone thinking about ordering one has got to consider the ST.
 

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VW will stick to their prices, the GTI is a premium product and people will pay the extra cash to aquire it. The Ford will fit in to its usual market sector providing excellent spec and performance but with a blue oval on the front and the comensurate lesser 'status' this conveys. Its the way of the world.
 

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The Golf V has always been expensive[:#]

But you could argue that the GTI competes againt the forthcoming ?25k 130i in the premium sector[*-)]
Methinks not as this will be left to the next R32 which is now going to be priced between ?23k - ?24k (EVO magazine Oct 2005).

~ Maxie
 

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....Its the way of the world.
Looks like you could be right - these are the Whatcar depreciation figures for the ST. They are projected trade figures so you could expect a bit more in a private sale, and a dealer mark-up would be ?2-3k on these (not saying they are gospel either, but I would bet that they aren't too far away).....

ST3 GTI

Year 0 ?19,495 19,999
Year 1 ?11,305 15,999
Year 2 ?9,722 14,400
Year 3 ?8,265 12,800
Year 4 ?6,944 11,275

I had hoped that the ST may fare better, but it seems not. What is it about the GTI that a poverty-spec model (relatively speaking!) is miles more desirable than a fully loaded, faster Focus?
 

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"What is it about the GTI that a poverty-spec model (relatively speaking!) is miles more desirable than a fully loaded, faster Focus?"

I think it's do with the way how these brands are marketed. One has a German badge, the other American. One is pitched at the upper end of its class, while the other in the middle. One is produced in a slightly larger volume than the other. One has the heritage, whilst the ST is still finding its feet (it's done a pretty good job so far as the first Focus ST was loved by most). And then there is also the badge. GTI is synonomous with VW whereas (for now) ST could mean anything to Joe Public. Historically, there has always been more demand for the VW than the Ford which largely underpins the residual values.

~ Maxie
 

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Okay i can see the Focus taking a bit of a battering
depreciation-wise over the GTI...... but that projected loss looks
ridiculous to me. Are they really saying that its gonna lose 40% of its
value in 12 months?!?! Come on...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I think the predicted depreciation figures are way off.

The ST3 is surely an equivalent the Focus RS ( I Could be wrong ?) as far as Ford branding is concerned. I have just checked Autotrader and 02 and 03 plate RS's are going for ?16,000 plus. Not exactly in line with the ST predictions. Could be that the RS badge is a little more emotional? Having said that a mate of mine had one, and it was one of the most uncompromising cars I have ever been in. The other major factor will be supply and demand of course, if every garage has 3or4 2nd hand ones for sale in a years time then prices will be hit, but then I think the GTi would be hit in a similar way.

Lastly, consider the prices verse specification - How much would the Gti be when specced up to the ST3 levels. Factor that into costs and things may look a little different.

Having said all that give me a GTi anyday. I really could not stand the Ford after service- . Truly something to be experienced..........Not , it even makes VW look good.
 

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The Golf V has always been expensive[:#]

But you could argue that the GTI competes againt the forthcoming ?25k 130i in the premium sector[*-)]
It wouldn't be fair to compare the GTi with the 130i - R32 maybe, but not the GTi.

Seat Leon anyone.....? the 2.0T has been launched at ?16300 - what price the Cupra?

Posted Image


The Golf is going to have some serious competition and premium pricing won't be enough in my opinion.
 

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I think the predicted depreciation figures are way off.

The ST3 is surely an equivalent the Focus RS ( I Could be wrong ?) as far as Ford branding is concerned
The Focus RS was a hand finished limited run (4000 I think) of cars and so this is why it has held it's value over the years. The new ST is going to be mass produced in the same way the last Focus ST was. Ford can't really afford to repeat what happened with the RS, it's said they lost an awful lot of money on that project.

Having said that those depreciation figures do look harsh but then Ford are very good at flooding the market with their cars whereas we know that VW are at least limiting the number of GTI's each year.
 

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I had a Focus RS, the resale was very strong if you got the first ones and sold relativly quickly, once a few started to appear the resale took a hit, problem with things like that is they either have to be very limited numbers or VERY good. The RS was good but not VERY good. When i sold my car (one of the last few) the dealers didn't really want them as quite a few where already on forcourts. However when i bought the car(four months beflre delivery) they had a second hand one for nearly list.

No question the ST will take a hit in resale, it is not limited in numbers and is a Ford, good or bad car it will drop lots of cash, much like the Astra VXR. The best way to buy a car like that is to think that anything you loose in resale you saved in purchase as they are cheaper than something like the golf.
 

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The Golf V has always been expensive[:#]

But you could argue that the GTI competes againt the forthcoming ?25k 130i in the premium sector[*-)]
It wouldn't be fair to compare the GTi with the 130i - R32 maybe, but not the GTi.

Seat Leon anyone.....? the 2.0T has been launched at ?16300 - what price the Cupra?

Posted Image


The Golf is going to have some serious competition and premium pricing won't be enough in my opinion.
The 2.0T Leon that is out at the moment 'only' has 185bhp. The two
sporty models, the FR and the Cupra (names replacing the outgoing Cupra
and Cupra R) are due early next year. The FR will come with 200bhp as
per the GTI, and the Cupra with a reported 240bhp.... with talk even of
it using the twin-charger engine that the next TT is getting!
 
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