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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My car is a 1.8T with a KO3s turbo and due to the heat at the momment my car is not reacting to well.... On motorways it works like a dream :D , but driving in traffic/towns on a hot day then the power the turbo supplies, just disappears [:(] .

Basically I am suffering from heat soak on my current uprated side mounted forge intercooler.

I have been looking at front mounted intercoolers, but I want one that is not going to loose me power by increasing the air volume in the turbo cycle and reduce my PSI.

I have looked at a few but they seem to need my bumper to be cut to pieces with pipes coming out all over the place. I want an OEM+ look still so I don't really want to cut into the bumper.

I was looking at the Forge Front mount http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/media/Golf%20FMIC%20v2.pdf which is meant to fit perfectly, but I have seen this kit on a friends car and his did not seem to fit correctly or smoothly and also the kit is ?900 including delivery [:O]

The main one that I am considering is an Allard Motorsport Front mount http://www.allardmotorcompany.co.uk/pages/...F-1.8-TURBO.pdf which I think looks ok and they have told me that I will not loose any PSI and there are no mods required to the bumper to fit :rolleyes: and it's also ?200 cheaper at ?700 including delivery :D The only problem is that there is a big pipe that links the turbo to the intercooler, which goes via the top part of the engine bay. I'm not sure whether this will look ok (please see link)

The final option I have found is a Chargecooler.... I'm a bit old skool and I have always believed that Chargecoolers are the best way to cool the turbo air. But and a big BUT they don't make a kit for the Golf 1.8T. They make a kit for the Seat Ibiza and I am prepared to try and mod it to fit. http://paceproducts.co.uk/php/products_inf...uctID=car/ibiza
The price is really good at ?675 but it might cost me more to mod it. I would love to put a Chargecooler on my car as it is a little different from the norm of using Front Mounted Intercoolers, but I have done a little research and found that the Seat guys seem to have problems with water heat soak in the Chargecoolers whilst stuck in traffic and due to water taking more time than air to cool, causes problems in performance. Some of the Seat owners have switched back to intercoolers after owning chargecoolers and not being happy with them.

I'm thinking of ordering the Allard Intercooler as I know it will work, I know the total price and front mounted intercoolers seem to be the norm, but I just want to know what anyone else thinks I should do (please keep it clean [:p] ) or any other recommendations.

Please help and sorry for the long spill :unsure:

Thanks Kev...
 

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a friend of mine has the allard set up, very nice bit of kit, everything fits perfectly and the welding is secound to none!

took us about 2hours tops to fit, only thing i disliked were the blue hoses, would prefer black, or in your case red to tie in with the rest of the engine.

hope that helps you a bit on decission.

are you going to be selling your side mount intercooler?

if so do you know if it fits or with modding will fit tdi?

if you have a price let me know im very interested.

cheers kieran
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
a friend of mine has the allard set up, very nice bit of kit, everything fits perfectly and the welding is secound to none!

took us about 2hours tops to fit, only thing i disliked were the blue hoses, would prefer black, or in your case red to tie in with the rest of the engine.

are you going to be selling your side mount intercooler?

if so do you know if it fits or with modding will fit tdi?
Hello Kieran

Thanks for the response

The allard kit you helped fit... was it a 1.8T kit or the diesel kit?

I will be selling my Uprated Forge Intercooler, but I do want about half the value back again... I paid ?480 delivered for it and I would prob want about ?200 for it. It is in excellent condition and has only covered about 10,000 miles and I am always washing and cleaning it.

Not sure if it will fit a diesel, but if you could give me some details of dimensions and/or pictures then I will try and find out... I'll also check my Haynes manual tonight to see if they look similar.

If you are not interested in my intercooler then no probs, but I will still try and find out whether it will fit for you [:)]
 

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Kev.

Intercooler all the way I would go with the allard at the price looks a bit different in the engine bay as well.

Looking at those pics it seems to do away with the pancake pipe too ?
 

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Have you considered water injection ?.Was talking to a mechanic the other day about bigger intercoolers and said that i should consider this instead.

Just looking into it at he moment to see how the results would compare
 

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Isn't there a gasket of somesort that also helps reduce temperatures? GaryM has one I believe,

Also how about some sort of water spray onto the intercooler? I know Subaru STI's have a button which u can press to shoot water onto the intercooler directly..

I guess these ideas would be of instant benefit, and are surely must haves anyway? cheap too
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Kev.

Intercooler all the way I would go with the allard at the price looks a bit different in the engine bay as well.

Looking at those pics it seems to do away with the pancake pipe too ?
Cheers H,

Yeh you are right about the pancake pipe.... which is always good, but I have an uprated version that I will be able to sell to try and get some of the ?700.00 back

I think I will be going with this option [:D]
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Have you considered water injection ?.Was talking to a mechanic the other day about bigger intercoolers and said that i should consider this instead.

Just looking into it at he moment to see how the results would compare
Jabbasport have a good kit that could be fitted but "my view only" I don't like the idea of water/methonal being sprayed into the engine. It is said to work very well, but I don't do many miles in my car and I'm a little worried it may do damage, whilst I'm not using it. Plus you have to keep an eye on the water level to make sure it does not run out.

Thanks for the recommendation Mo [:)]
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Isn't there a gasket of somesort that also helps reduce temperatures? GaryM has one I believe,

Also how about some sort of water spray onto the intercooler? I know Subaru STI's have a button which u can press to shoot water onto the intercooler directly..

I guess these ideas would be of instant benefit, and are surely must haves anyway? cheap too
Hello Jason

You have read my mind mate [:D].... the Gasket is said to be very good and at the momment I am looking into how to change it myself.... the Gasket is very cheap, but the labour to fit it is quite expensive [:(]

Water spray on the intercooler.... again great minds think alike [:D][:D].... My plan is disconnect the rear wiper motor and divert the water supply, from the rear wiper, to a couple of washer jets aimed at the new intercooler.... so that when I need water sprayed onto the intercooler I just use the rear washer stalk [:D].
 

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My choice would be water injection, running low shouldn't be a problem as most people tap it into the washer bottle so you know when its running low.

If you know anyone that can weld you could do an fmic and water injection for less than the Forge IC.
 

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My choice would be water injection, running low shouldn't be a problem as most people tap it into the washer bottle so you know when its running low.

If you know anyone that can weld you could do an fmic and water injection for less than the Forge IC.
I wouldn't be using the washer bottle for Water Injection Cooling in the Inlet, what are you going to do in the Winter, water inject the inlet with loads of screen wash ?

The Aquamist system has a pressure sensor and you adjust the system to only spray when the boost pressure hits the level you set. You feed it from a seperate water source.

Spraying the Intercooler (externally) from the washer system would be fine till you need to wash the flies off your screen and you are out of water. Keep the supplies seperate like on an Impreza.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
My choice would be water injection, running low shouldn't be a problem as most people tap it into the washer bottle so you know when its running low.

If you know anyone that can weld you could do an fmic and water injection for less than the Forge IC.
Spraying the Intercooler (externally) from the washer system would be fine till you need to wash the flies off your screen and you are out of water. Keep the supplies seperate like on an Impreza.
I never use my front windscreen washers, unless in the winter time and I also have the larger 5.5 litre water tank so I should have no problem with using to much water.

In an ideal world I would have a seperate tank will a cooling ellement to chill the water, but I'm trying to keep the engine bay as clean looking as possible.... thank you for input though
 

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Water injection all the way.

With my front mount, I can still get 40C over ambient inlet temps (peak), with WI on I see no more than 20C over ambient peak. The car never feels heat soaked, and other than removing the nozzle and soaking it in limescale remover at each oil change, I've had to do no maintenance, and had zero problems with the system in around 20k miles with it on.

The higher your intake temps are, the more benefit WI will give you. The 5.5l windscreen washer bottle lasts 3-5 tanks of fuel using the largest nozzle. You get a warning from the level sensor in the bottle, so you can always turn it off (to protect the pump) until you can fill up.

The methanol is just for frost protection, and most washer fluid is mostly methanol. I've run mine through the winter and to be honest it smears less without the detergents from washer fluid.

Cooling the water would be next to pointless. The latent heat is where the cooling comes from.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Cooling the water would be next to pointless. The latent heat is where the cooling comes from.
Thanks for the Info Wilko

Would water injection be a little to much for a KO3s turbo?

Spraying cool water onto the intercooler would they not benefit and aid cooling?

"The dormant heat" how does that work... sorry mate.... I'm a little confused and lost [:D]
 

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a friend of mine has the allard set up, very nice bit of kit, everything fits perfectly and the welding is secound to none!

took us about 2hours tops to fit, only thing i disliked were the blue hoses, would prefer black, or in your case red to tie in with the rest of the engine.

are you going to be selling your side mount intercooler?

if so do you know if it fits or with modding will fit tdi?
Hello Kieran

Thanks for the response

The allard kit you helped fit... was it a 1.8T kit or the diesel kit?

I will be selling my Uprated Forge Intercooler, but I do want about half the value back again... I paid ?480 delivered for it and I would prob want about ?200 for it. It is in excellent condition and has only covered about 10,000 miles and I am always washing and cleaning it.

Not sure if it will fit a diesel, but if you could give me some details of dimensions and/or pictures then I will try and find out... I'll also check my Haynes manual tonight to see if they look similar.

If you are not interested in my intercooler then no probs, but I will still try and find out whether it will fit for you [:)]
hi kev, yes it was for a 1.8t on a w reg, and like i said before the fit and quality are secound to none.

i believe the intercoolers for diesels and petrol are the same size, but dont quote me on that, only diference being where the sensor is mounted, as mines on the intercooler pipe, as yours is on the intercooler its self.

but yes i will deffo have it please, i fancy a mission trying to make something fit.

my car is a 98 gt tdi 110 ahf engine, if that helps with the search in haynes.

cheers kieran
 

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Spraying water on the intercooler has some effect, but it's nowhere near as effective as water injection.

Latent heat (of evaporation) is the heat required to evaporate the water (2260kj/kg)

The sensible heat (heat taken to heat the water up to boiling point) is only 4.18kj/kgK. So you could heat 6.75kg of water from 20C to 100C with the same amount of energy it take to evaporate 1kg.

The water doesn't get heated to 100C before it evaporates either (partial pressures blah blah blah) so the sensible heat portion of the cooling effect is minimal.

1m3 of air can hold around 565g of water at 45C before it becomes saturated.

At 140g/s your engine is ingesting something like 7m3/min and the largest aquamist injector is about 280cc/min.

This would put 40g of water into each cubic meter. But it would cool the air by 76C if it all evaporated (which it doesn't.)
 

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Fit the Alard intercooler, with Aquamist WI and rig up an IC mister from the water bottle! [:p] winner!

I have a mister I made from a corsa washer bottle rigged up in the boot... to be honest your forever filling it up... its empty most of the time now [:|]
 

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I would love to put a Chargecooler on my car as it is a little
different from the norm of using Front Mounted Intercoolers, but I have
done a little research and found that the Seat guys seem to have
problems with water heat soak in the Chargecoolers whilst stuck in
traffic and due to water taking more time than air to cool, causes
problems in performance. Some of the Seat owners have switched back to
intercoolers after owning chargecoolers and not being happy with them.
I've got past experience of both chargecoolers and water injection.

Things to note:
The performance of your charge cooler is dependant 4 things. the size of the IC the size of the heat exchanger, the speed of the pump and the volume of your reserviour. Get the biggest you can manage on all fronts. don't be drawn in by fancy looking small polished stuff. I used to have to block my IC up as it would get too cold in witer. you can also alter the speed of the pump if you have this kind of problem.

Water injection does not run all the time. It only runs on full boost, or a predetermined pressure point. The race pumps are the only solution if your running power, don't be conned thinking that the wee washer pump is goign to produce a mist. Its not about teh power either, you get much smoother power delivery plus a bit extra pull, but it's about not melting your engine really.

just some info from an old user of these things... :)
 
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