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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, so i've had my current one a few years, but wanted something bigger for my fish to live in, so decided to change the little 16L one for a 60L jobbie. Having set it all up and added water (with dechlorinator) I know you gotta leave it a week or so to get the new biological filter going.

As I am doing this without fish (in the new tank) I added some Nutrafin Cycle into the water at the dosage for new tank setups, and also added a Tetra Bactozym capsule as a few fish keeping sites recommended them to help the growing culture along.

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I did this on friday of last week, and by saturday evening I thought the water looked a little murky/cloudy. When I had a look in the daylight yes it is a bit murky and maybe has a slight yellowy brown tinge to it. I know when you add culture it can sometimes make the water cloudy and that's normal, but it still looks the same now, 4 days after adding it. How long should it take to clear, I cant imagine it would be good to put the fish in as it is at the moment.

This is my old (current) tank:-

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Here's a few pics of the new one, but it looks somehow a bit lighter on the pics than it really does:-

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The filter has Bio Filter Balls in the bottom (see number 3 on here http://www.tetra-fish.co.uk/tetratec/externalfilters.html), particle filter foam and carbon and then a bio foam.

Should I leave it longer or is there something else I should do?
 

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This is probably a bacterial bloom which turns the water cloudy. I've experienced it a few times particularly with a new tank. There's 2 things you can do. First is to leave it because it will probably go away within a week or 2. Secondly there is a product that can help the particulates clump together to make it easier for the filter to get them out. I think its called filter aid.

When setting up a new tank you actually don't need to cycle it if you already have a tank going. You should take half the water from the old tank, fill a pair of tights or similar with gravel/sand from the original tank as it will be loaded with bacteria. Or use some of the filter media from the old tank in the new tank for a week. By this time the new tank should be well established.
 

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In reply to your email mate,

The above info is correct, however i wouldn't add and more chemicals to the water just yet. Firstly i would remove the bio balls and if you have any of the gravel etc left from your old tank use it to "seed" the new tank with good bacteria. The bio balls will just trap crap and become a nitrate home which in the long run will be bad for your fishies. What are you going to keep in there? Freshwater or tropicals? Chicilids? All this info helps. I would clean out the filters to make sure they are clean. Did you rinse the carbon filter? Because that produces black water if not rinsed first.

Hmmm also is the water being pumped around and is there air going through it because if it is not being oxygenated this could also cause problems with stagnent water.

Let me know and i will try help further mate. Also Nosaj may be able to help.

The other thing it could be is just your tank cycling and once it settle down it will be fine (often called new tank syndrome)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for replies guys, It's just gonna be a coldwater setup with my 2 Goldfish and 1 Minnow (white mountain cloud) that are in my current tank.

As its a new tank and new filter, the filter media was clean cos it was all brand new, and as I've not got the fish in yet there's no solid matter or waste in there. I didn't rinse the carbon though, never heard of doing that before, but the particle filter foam and carbon are all in one filter cartridge that you just replace every 4-6 weeks, its kind of a sealed cartridge you just slide in.

The filter is pumping, and there is circulation of the water in the tank (you can see my fake fern plants swaying in the current!) but there is no oxygenation from an airstone as I am using my pump for the current tank which my fish are still living in.

But from adding the Nutrafin Cycle - and I forgot to mention, I added about 6 litres of the old tank water and a piece of the bio filter media when I set it up - there should be bacteria colonies there by now shouldn't there? will they colonise and live without biological waste being produced from fish?

I chose to try and set it up without fish, as when I set my old tank up, I had fish losses due to high ammonia levels due to the filter not being established, and I don't wanna lose my fish [:(]

If it is a bacteria bloom as Nik says, then there must obviously be plenty of bacteria in there, but is this safe to put my fish into, or do i need to clear it first?

Is it likely to clear on its own?

Sorry for so many questions guys and such a long post, but I just really want to get it right and safe before I put my fish in!
 

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Hi there

as above im 100% sure ya tank has (new tank syndrome)

this will take a couple of weeks to settle down after it has been set up as long as there is some life in the tank

i would do a 50% water change and use the water from you other tank to fill you new one with and add some water conditioner to it

even though its old water it will still help to mature water faster ,do a water test and if every thing is at good levels

move a fish into the tank to start making waste for the filter to start work on

this is most important as this needs to get working proply

but keep a close eye on the water tests for a few weeks

the brown discolouration is caused by the bog wood you have added .....is it new ?

some places sell treated and untreaed bog wood ........

if it still persists to leach ie make water go brown , yellow

take it out and get a bucket of water and add 2lb salt per gallon place the wood in there for a couple of days and then rinse off and put back in tank , that should stop the water going brown , ya may have to repeat though
 

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Funny you should say that Nosaj i was thinking the same about the bogwood because some people like the colouration for their tanks so they look natural. Thats why i asked about the cicilids because they come from the browny waters.

My new nano is up and running now (well live roks to go in after work today)

Everything is so much more complicated in the marine side of things! Pic of mine below but no rock in the photo!

Anyway Nosaj any tips you have i would happily accept! via PM or email or whatever! :)

Ben any more help dont worry about posting long messages its better to get it right first time!

Cheers

Tank: Cycling with live sand for a few days now rock is going in tonight.

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Ahhhh I've got a really nice fish that would love that tank!!!!! or any tank!! anyone want a FREE fish, FREE Tank and FREE filter!?!?!????? I didnt want the fish in the first place... my mums cat stole it from a pond and I felt sorry for it... that was 5 years ago... I was kinda hoping it would of carked it by now...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Nosaj, yeah the wood is new (added it cos I thought it looked nice!), its called Mopani wood or something. Didnt say anyhting about it being treated or not...

Right, so you recommend a 50% water change in the new tank....

The new tank has 51L of water in, so thats a 25L change.
But old tank only has 16L water total, so should I take half of that out, or less than half?
And do you mean add water conditioner just to the tap water added, or to the volume of old tank water used too?

Is it best to just add 1 of the fish (big one or small one), just that they been living together for about 3 years, will they get lonely or stressed if they suddenly find themself alone and in a new tank?

Shall I still leave it for any time between water change and adding fish, or put 'em straight in?

So to sum up, do you recommend this course of action:-

1) Take out the wood, soak in salt water for a couple days, rinse (tap water?) then put back in.

2) 50% water change in new tank, using some old tank water and some new, conditioned tap water.

3) Put fish in.

I'm just wary of putting fish in (number 3), not just for stress, but of the tank conditions not being safe. Can you use food to allow to rot, or fish poo from other tank without exposing the fish?
 

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1. Yes soak in salt water to cure it some people like to keep changing the water its sitting in some dont.

2. Sounds correct, use as much of the old tanks stuff as you can (see answer 3)

3. If you use all of the stuff from the old tank you can do a "fishless cycle" i think this is more humane personally that way they dont suffer from and stress and this can be done quickly too. Using all the old gear and that out of your old tank put it into the new one to populate it with good bacteria.

HTH
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
OK, I'll take the wood out and soak it for a bit, will the brown colouring thats already come out go away, or will I need to change all the water to get it clear again?

Do you reckon then if I change half the new tank, and put just 8L of old tank water in with the rest to top it back up, that will be enough, and the filter will be colonised enough?

Is the brown-ness from the wood safe for the fish to live in?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OK, I've taken the wood out and have that soaking of 2 gallons of salty water at the moment, and out of the 51L in the new tank....

I took 26L out,
Put 8L of the old (current) tank water in, and 18L of fresh conditioned water.
Also put a cupful of gravel from old tank in, along with a chunk of the old bio foam filter from the old tank. Is the chunk of old filter foam ok to just sit in the tank itself, or does it need to be squeezed into the intrnal filter somewhere?

The water is still a bit coloured, but not too bad now as its been quite diluted. Will the carbon in the filter get rid of this colouration as the wood is not adding any more in? Is there any benefit to adding another piece of extra carbon to try and clear the colour, or can you overload it with carbon?

How do you know when it is safe to add the fish? when would you put them in?

Or should I still leave it another week?

Is there a need to test ammonia or nitrate levels without any fish in? - will there be any NH3/NO3 levels, will they change?
 

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OK, I've taken the wood out and have that soaking of 2 gallons of salty water at the moment, and out of the 51L in the new tank....

I took 26L out,
Put 8L of the old (current) tank water in, and 18L of fresh conditioned water.
Also put a cupful of gravel from old tank in, along with a chunk of the old bio foam filter from the old tank.

The water is still a bit coloured, but not too bad now as its been quite diluted. Will the carbon in the filter get rid of this colouration as the wood is not adding any more in? Is there any benefit to adding another piece of extra carbon to try and clear the colour, or can you overload it with carbon?

How do you know when it is safe to add the fish? when would you put them in?

Or should I still leave it another week?

Is there a need to test ammonia or nitrate levels without any fish in? - will there be any NH3/NO3 levels, will they change?
I have a stunt fish that comes with his own tank and filter that would be well up for testing your new setup! Danger is his middle name after wrestling my mums cat and surviving!! ammonia and nitrate are a walk in the park for him!

ps I'll deliver!
 

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hi, (btw dont worry about pestering me i am here to help... or at least try to!)

Dont add any more carbon just yet no point to be honest. It should remove some of the discolouration but i think your water may still be coloured. However if you do a 10% weekly water change the colour will be gone in a few weeks for sure and the colour itself will not be harmful because some people actually like it.

As for the tests pick up 2 kits from your LFS and then check it. wont cost you more than £10 and will ensure the logenvity of your fish mate. If you put them into poor conditions they may survive however their lifespan will be shortened!

Yup just leave the bio foam in the tank to float and seed the tanks with the bacteria. (just take out when fish go in)

Do the Nitrate/Ammonia tests and when they are low then you can put the fish in. I mean they probably wont be rock bottom but they should be low. Then add the fish. I would leave at least a few more days say till Wednesday next week then you know the tank has settled and will not be cloudy anymore.

And more questions just ask mate or drop me a PM to remind me.

Oh BTW this is my new mini fish tank for marine fish... (Fish going in few weeks... these tanks really do take a while to mature!)

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Funny you should say that Nosaj i was thinking the same about the bogwood because some people like the colouration for their tanks so they look natural. Thats why i asked about the cicilids because they come from the browny waters.

My new nano is up and running now (well live roks to go in after work today)

Everything is so much more complicated in the marine side of things! Pic of mine below but no rock in the photo!

Anyway Nosaj any tips you have i would happily accept! via PM or email or whatever! :)

Ben any more help dont worry about posting long messages its better to get it right first time!

Cheers

Tank: Cycling with live sand for a few days now rock is going in tonight.

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The wood can be a strange thing i prefered it to leach in the water when i kept discus as its sim to the amazon

ya tank looks cool ya have to post some pics when ya get some fishies in there , agree marine can be hard work to begin with but worth it once its running proply , il do a little report for ya so ya have a few do's and donts il send it via pm for ya
 

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ta mate would be great.

Got most of the things right so far i think but will post some pics up when i get some fish, shrips, crabs in there. :)

Yeah i have also been thinking of setting up a tank with the bogwood and plants in hmmmmmmmmm... get this one done first then get one for the other room :D
 

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Nosaj, yeah the wood is new (added it cos I thought it looked nice!), its called Mopani wood or something. Didnt say anyhting about it being treated or not...

Right, so you recommend a 50% water change in the new tank....

The new tank has 51L of water in, so thats a 25L change.
But old tank only has 16L water total, so should I take half of that out, or less than half?
And do you mean add water conditioner just to the tap water added, or to the volume of old tank water used too?

Is it best to just add 1 of the fish (big one or small one), just that they been living together for about 3 years, will they get lonely or stressed if they suddenly find themself alone and in a new tank?

Shall I still leave it for any time between water change and adding fish, or put 'em straight in?

So to sum up, do you recommend this course of action:-

1) Take out the wood, soak in salt water for a couple days, rinse (tap water?) then put back in.

2) 50% water change in new tank, using some old tank water and some new, conditioned tap water.

3) Put fish in.

I'm just wary of putting fish in (number 3), not just for stress, but of the tank conditions not being safe. Can you use food to allow to rot, or fish poo from other tank without exposing the fish?
sorry for the delay in replying , had a fair bit on with regards to sorting car out and stuff ..

maponi wood does leach but not as much as ya average normal bog wood , a good soak in the salt solution should sort that out and over time with ya water changes ya should see it not leach at all

yer its best to change as much water as ya can to get the system working asap but as ya dont have enough in your old tank maybe best to half empty ya new one ,

then drain half the old one down and use that to top up ya new one then just use tap water with conditioner to top it up

it should be ok to add the fish in after a little while once tank has settled

il update with more info in a bit as i got to go out on site brb lol
 

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As jacksprat said

a few weekly water changes of 10% will help a lot to control the water quality or

ya can transfer all ya old stuf from you old tank to the new , this speeds up the progress a lot faster as all the filter goodies havent got to start all over again

even if it has both filter in there running unti the new one has astablished its self and then remove the old one

had to do this with a client pond as he sold his house transfer 2000 gallons from his old pond to his new one which was about 50% of what it holds

took a while but worth it as his koi collection was worth about 80k and wasnt going to risk new fresh water , then added 50 gallons every other day

plus it depends if ya intend keeping the old tank running thats all
 

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Sorry if a bit breif , busy at work at mo , il reply a bit more when i get home

any other ? and il answer them for ya , just drop a me a pm or email apoliges for reply delay though as i know setting up a tank ya need answers asap

Just like to say ....... jacksprat is spot on with all ya answers [Y] he knows his stuff [:D]

And before long so will you [:D]
 

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Ta very much Nosaj but there is always plenty to learn!

never be worried to ask Q's Ian even if tehys eem silly best to egt it right first time round!

Just takes alot of questions to learn your stuff... book are good but first hand experience always rules the roost!

Let us know how you get on mate

Nosaj or Ian come check this forum out mateys as even though its marine many of the same rules apply

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Many many thanks for all the help guys, I really do appreciate the benefit of your knowledge to help me as I dont know that much myself but I'm eager to learn; there's a lot more to this fish keeping lark than you'd imagine! Not just as simple as sticking a fish in some water.

I've had the mopani out in a tub of water and have changed the water about 10 times and every time it ends up looking like someone spilled tea in it. So my current plan as I dont really want the brown water effect is just to leave it out the tank and keep soaking til it stops leaching - though I've read on some websites that it can take months or years for it to stop [:O].....I may get fed up and decide not to use it, but it made a nice place for my big fish to hide behind along with the fake plants! have to find him another hiding place to use while I soak the wood.

So I'm intending to put my fish in to the new tank next week sometime (gotta test levels yet though...) and will probably transfer all 16L from old tank with them, and then monitor ammonia/nitrate levels and do water changes to keep it down a bit until the filter is properly established.

The filter in the old tank is all built into the hood and has filter foam and carbon media to put into slots, so cant use that in new tank while new one matures.

I'm wanting to use the old tank again after I move the fish, I have always wanted some Neon Tetras, but worried that tropicals might be hard to look after. Is a 16L tank big enough, and what is invlolved? is it just the same as coldwater (normal water, not saltwater; filtered; air pump etc.) with addition of a heater? Cos I have read a few places that they recommend a planted tank for tetras, do they need live plants in the water, or will they be happy with plastic plants if its just for hiding in?
 
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