Volkswagen Mark IV Forum banner

1 - 20 of 68 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Right, had my TDI 150 for a couple of weeks now, done 1200 miles in it but I'm still not really sure how to get the most out of it. [:(]

It's completely standard, and it does pull suddenly from just under 2000rpm but then that's about it. It's pretty constant right up to 4500rpm, change up and it's fairly constant again until redline / change up, redline / change up etc.

Am I driving it right?

Does it just not feel that quick because it's quite refined (have been surprised to see 3 figures on the speedo on a few occasions when I thought I was doing a lot less)?

Is it broken...?!

Long-term diesel (particularly TDI 150) drivers; when do you change up? When does it feel quickest, i.e. should I be planting my foot from 1500rpm or over 2500rpm or what?

At the moment it just seems like a really short buzz with quite a narrow powerband. What am I missing...? [:O]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Hi there ,

I'm guessing you've come from a petrol!? It will take you a while to get used to the smaller rev range on the diesel, also if I'm correct the 150 feels less 'punchy' due to its bigger turbo.

If the car feels lazy then I would advise looking at your MAF sensor (a common fault) but you say that it pulls to redline so its unlikely that there is a problem.

You have to remember that your max torque is no where near the redline in a diesel and you should be changing up at about 3500 to get the most out of it, I think that peak is about 1900RPM.

I drive a 110 TDI with a remap and I have to agree that refined VW's do appear to be going slower than they actually are, I know my civic used to feel as though it went much quicker but they are less refined with increased road noise etc.

I asked a similar question not too long ago on the forums and the advice was to feather the accelerator before planting it to avoid wheelspin.

I think the bottom line is that diesels are inherently more difficult to drive fast from a standing start but pure torque when you are already moving will see off similar powered petrols easily.

If you still aren't convinced soon then simply get a remap - it'll be like having n engine transplant.[:p]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,885 Posts
Just like bora110 has said,

i have a chipped 130 and its all between about 1750 - to- 3700 rpm.

Get a chip fitted and you will have trouble keeping the smile of your face.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
As said above...sounds like you have had petrols before. I got my 150 just before xmas. I had a corsa before this (leave it lol!). But the difference in driving the cars is somethin else. The corsa was lowered and like a go kart so it felt nippy and quite quick. I do the same journey to work everyday and corners that the corsa would go round and feel quick and on the limit...the golf just cruises it. doent feel fast at all. Think this is due to the fact the the Golf is alot more refined. I was worried that the golf wouldnt handle as good as the corsa did but have been very suprised. Uprated arb's are on the cards to tighten everthin up.

As for driving style I dont really drive it any different...apart from hit not hitting the limiter as ofter. Personally I think it drives like a petrol and with it having bags of torque you dont have to rev it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,451 Posts
TBH the 150 powerband isnt that narrow, it seems that way if you keep looking at the rev counter and because lower revs are not as noisey it will feel slower because there is less fuss. If you had 2 identicle accelerating cars the one that revs higher willl seem faster because of the raw noise, as you said yourself you were surprised to see 3 figures on the speedo without realising it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the input guys; you're right, I've only ever had petrols in 15 years of driving and although I've had plenty of diesel hire cars recently I've never lived with one day-to-day. [:|]

To be honest, I think it's just me - planted my foot this morning at about 30mph in 3rd, the thing lurched forward and before I knew it 70mph was on the clock! It did feel quick! Guess I need to learn how to drive it properly - for now, it just seems to be good for short bursts but I guess once I learn where it pulls best from, what gear / revs to go into a corner at etc. then it will be a different story. [:)]

Still under VW warranty until March 2007 so didn't want to chip it until then. Should see a big difference then, having lived with it for a year as standard... [:D]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
sk4tec - how does BP Ultimate compare to Shell diesel Extra? That's what I'm on at the moment; primarily because there are quite a few Shell garages round my way! Nearest BP is probably about 5 miles out of my way - would you say it is worth the journey...?

Not sure it's the fuel that's at fault here, think it's more to do with my driving style to be honest! [;)]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,066 Posts
sk4tec - how does BP Ultimate compare to Shell diesel Extra? That's what I'm on at the moment; primarily because there are quite a few Shell garages round my way! Nearest BP is probably about 5 miles out of my way - would you say it is worth the journey...?

Not sure it's the fuel that's at fault here, think it's more to do with my driving style to be honest! [;)]
There is no kick at the end of the red line (just be glad its as good as it is for a derv) unlike a 16V petrol or a Vtec engine. For max performance take it to the max power 4K rpm change up and repeat until your in 6th. Otherwise enjoy the torque and leave it in 5th or 6th.

Yes - they don't 'feel' fast but they are when u look at the speedo. Longterm this makes owning mine feel a little boring. A few poeple have left diesiel ownership 'cos of this.

As for fuel my research (dieselcar magazine website) shows that Shell Diesel Extra has the same benifits as BP Ultimate but it costs the same a regular fuel. I would use Shell if I had the chance. Also Shell regular diesel is meant to be very good too
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
459 Posts
When you put your foot down at 2K rpm the kick you feel is the immediate change from (as an example) 1g of acceleration to say 2gs of acceleration. What you don't feel is the fact that you stay at the same rate of acceleration (2gs) all the way to the 4K rpm. This is why you can feel a car running out of steam at the top end as the acceleration slows down, thus reducing amount of g you feel.

Everybody says that a PD150 has a very narrow power band.... which is totally bollocks (it has a narrow rev band). What it actually is that most people mean in reference to the power band, is that the engine's torque state change is very very quick. Compare that to a petrol 1.8T 150 where the peak torque is much higher up the rev band and the torque curve (ie accerlation build up) is over a longer period of time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
sk4tec / auroan - cheers lads, pretty much confirms what I thought.

Think I'm still expecting that gradual build-up of torque / power that a petrol delivers, I'm just not used to 'BANG! All the power is here now and right up to the redline!!'-type delivery, which is essentially what's happening from 2000rpm in a TDI 150. Guess it just seems like you're being short-changed because 2000-4000 seems like quite a narrow band revs-wise, compared to say 3000-7000 on a petrol. However, the diesel has max torque and power available instantly and right across the range, whereas the petrol will build gradually, peaking at about 6000, right?

Still very impressed with the TDI 150, really enjoying it!

sk4tec - I'll stick with the Shell Extra fuel for now, unless I'm passing a BP when I need a fill up then I'll try the Ultimate. Another problem with these diesels - hardly ever need filling up...! [;)]

I'll have it sussed in a couple of months; I'll soon be leaving everyone behind in a big dirty cloud of smoke...!! [:D]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
It'll just take a little while to get used to it, just stop reving the nuts off it and keep the needle below 4k, you'll make rapid progress and the car will thank you in the long run by not grenading itself. [:D]

I've driven diezels for over 5years and it's the lazyness of all the torque i love, especailly when stuck in crawling rush hour traffic when you can treat it like an auto, and just leave it crawling in 1st gear with no throttle and it just keep going even up hills.

Although, i have driven a few petrols recently and i keep stalling them[:S], i've got that used to the torque of the diezel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
646 Posts
I cant understand people saying they don't feel quick, the explosion of power I get at 2,000rpm up to 4,500rpm is crazy! you could get whiplash! Mine feels very fast especially in second and third! It "Feels" faster than my 300 bhp Nissan but thats due to the torque.....I will agree that they do not feel quick when acelerating in 4th, 5th 6th on the motorway because they are so refind and well built/Soundproofed etc but when I see the needle creaping up to triple figures with very little effort it shocks me as it feels like im doing 65-70 mph!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I cant understand people saying they don't feel quick, the explosion of power I get at 2,000rpm up to 4,500rpm is crazy! you could get whiplash! Mine feels very fast especially in second and third!
Yeah, I reckon mine would feel pretty quick with 230bhp as well...!! [;)]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
I agree mine pulls all the way to the red line. It never feels fast until you look in the rearview mirror and see how much distance you have pulled on other cars.

The speed build up is very very deceptive because of the power delivery. Used to have a 115PD Passat and that would die before the red line but on the 150 the drop off is less noticeable.

I had been getting "bored" of mine recently and was thinking of changing but yesterday I had some time to kill before a meeting and took it down some B roads. That was scary I forgot how fast it can be. It was a good reminder and I now think this may be the first car I don't want to change but as I do a reasonable mileage I know I am going to have to eventually.

I find BP Ultimate works best for me the difference is noticable after a few tanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
646 Posts
Theres no way i'll be selling mine in the next 5 yrs!! Never had a car with such power and economy!! When My shares come out in 2008 our Peugeot 307 will go out the window!!! The Golf will go to my wife...and I'll be getting an R32 or a Subaru P1 not sure yet......its the sound of the boxer engine vs the v6 snarle! obviously the P1 is faster both 4 wheel drive etc! We will see when the time comes but EXTREMELY happy with the TDI!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,066 Posts
I cant understand people saying they don't feel quick, the explosion of power I get at 2,000rpm up to 4,500rpm is crazy! you could get whiplash! Mine feels very fast especially in second and third! It "Feels" faster than my 300 bhp Nissan but thats due to the torque.....I will agree that they do not feel quick when acelerating in 4th, 5th 6th on the motorway because they are so refind and well built/Soundproofed etc but when I see the needle creaping up to triple figures with very little effort it shocks me as it feels like im doing 65-70 mph!
I've been out in a friends Honda S2000 (as a passenger) quite a few times. Its not fair to compare the cars as a whole as its a soft top and mines a normal hatch. But the engines are almost the exact opposite in terms of power and torque.

The Honda 'feels' more exciting when the engine is screaming up to 9K rpm and the performance goes up and up until the redline, not like my diesel where the massive torque low down is not matched by equally massive power at the top end.

Having said that I love driving performance diesels.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
774 Posts
Sounds normal- short buzz with a narrow powerband, a remap will widen this but it will still be rubbish in the final analysis. That's exactly why I got rid of my Anniversary, I enjoy driving to much to be comforted by the fact I was going reasonably quickly and still getting 50mpg (whoop de do!).

Enjoyment is more important than saving a few pennies to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,885 Posts
Sounds normal- short buzz with a narrow powerband, a remap will
widen this but it will still be rubbish in the final analysis. That's
exactly why I got rid of my Anniversary, I enjoy driving to much to be
comforted by the fact I was going reasonably quickly and still getting
50mpg (whoop de do!).

Enjoyment is more important than saving a few pennies to me.
.....Is it , ahh.

Never mind a. Now run along and find another conversation to butt in on and act the ****[:p]
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
774 Posts
Sounds normal- short buzz with a narrow powerband, a remap will widen this but it will still be rubbish in the final analysis. That's exactly why I got rid of my Anniversary, I enjoy driving to much to be comforted by the fact I was going reasonably quickly and still getting 50mpg (whoop de do!).

Enjoyment is more important than saving a few pennies to me.
.....Is it , ahh.

Never mind a. Now run along and find another conversation to butt in on and act the tw4t.[:p]
As far as I can see you are the one butting into a thread with off topic garbage and using a 4 instead of an 'A' to get round the swear filter. Both are against the terms and conditions of this website. I suggest you go and read them.[:)] What does never mind 'a' mean by the way?

My comments are perfectly valid the 1.9 PD motor has a very narrow power band requiring you to change up, change up, change up all the time. It's even worse in the PD130 than it is in the 150, it runs out of puff at relatively low speeds. Not a car for someone who enjoys driving or knows very much about it I'd venture to suggest. Not very satisfying ultimately and the weight over the nose promotes understeer.
 
1 - 20 of 68 Posts
Top