[Bike_Boy]

Evening all ,

I have an old tower that i have dug out and i am trying to up grade so me and my wife dont have to "book time " and the current one..

What i have is a :- E machines 150 DVD with 1.20 Ghz Intel celeron processor ( does 370 pin package apply to this ? ) , 128MB syncDRAM , 256KB L2 Cache 100Mhz System bus , 20GB hard drive.

Will i have to upgrade the mother board to accommodate a better processor and all the associated components ?? This computer will not be used for games but will be used for AutoCAD , Photoshop and general media storage.

If anyone could give me a point in the right direction with building one upspec wise it would be a massive help , Any online store's that you guys use would be a help too..

Thanks

Jay

 

[shiuming]

To "upgrade" that machine you'll be effectively building a new one from scratch - components have moved on light years since. My own main desktop is over 6 years old now and I'll be building the next one from scratch as I won't really be able to use anything from this one.

 

[Bike_Boy]

Thanks for the reply Shiu,

What sort of cost would be involved in building a new P.C with around 250GB and middle of the road components ?? Would i be better just using Dell, As i kind of want to do it for myself so i start to learn abit more about what is happening inside the noisy box on the floor []..

Jay

 

[shiuming]

Difficult to beat the box shifters, and Dell actually offers some very decent deals for some very nicely designed hardware, but you'll get more out of it building your own. You can put together a decent system for £500.

Your homework tonight is to visit www.overclockers.co.uk, start with a 250GB hard disk (SATA) and work backwards from that. I'd recommend a minimum of 1 GB memory. Build a shopping cart and post it here for teacher to mark [][]

 

[_Spud_]

I would agree that building your own does allow you to get a
truly bespoke system, although now I don't think it will ever work out much cheaper.

Take a look at http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/115008

For £359.99 + VAT and a 3 year warranty it would be difficult
to build a PC for that amount of money.

At work we still build all of our servers in house, but we
now just buy pc's of the shelf as it cheaper than building them.

 

[shiuming]

Aye, it's a common misconception that building your own is cheaper - it never is. The box shifters have bulk buying power and are in it for maximum margins, when you buy the bits as an end user you don't get that, but you do get to choose the best components rather than those that are cheapest. I sinlge out Dell as an example of a box shifter that builds quality systems for the money often using the latest technology before most others adopt them, compared to even HP/Compaq I think the machines are designed better and tidier inside.

 

[R44MS_K]

i disagree

custom is always cheaper!!

for £400 odd you can get a killer machine!!

 

[sk4tec]

i disagree

custom is always cheaper!!

for £400 odd you can get a killer machine!!

You pay for what u get. Yes Dells are cheap but like the bog standard compaq's we have at work they are the Ford's of the computing world. They work well enough, but quality isn't there.

I know someone who bought a bargin Dell but the problem with his p4 is that the chassis doesn't cool enough and the fans are at full blast in hot weather and is hard disk was overheating. He's gonna start again with a new case. Perhaps he wouldn't have this problem with a mid-line case but then if your paying mid prices u might as well scratch build.

My lian li case has a fan at the front and one at the rear. The hard disc case is behind the first fan and so it acts like a hdd cooler too - simple and it keep the discs cool.

 

[shiuming]

Well it depends on the quality of components you're prepared to use, I'm sure if you compare like for like you'll find it difficult to beat Dell! However in the DIY market there is a lot of scope for building something of way higher spec and quality than Dell, it's just if you're after value for money, doing it yourself you just can't buy the parts cheap enough. The markup on retail boxed processors and legit operating systems alone is huge. Motherboards are fairly cheap though and the integrated graphics and sound are quite excellent now compared to the old days, and you typically even get built in network port, so you don't have to buy those horrible nasty £5 unbranded network cards from the computer fair that fail after a couple of months, yuk.

 

[shiuming]

i disagree

custom is always cheaper!!

for £400 odd you can get a killer machine!!

You pay for what u get. Yes Dells are cheap but like the bog standard compaq's we have at work they are the Ford's of the computing world. They work well enough, but quality isn't there.

I know someone who bought a bargin Dell but the problem with his p4 is that the chassis doesn't cool enough and the fans are at full blast in hot weather and is hard disk was overheating. He's gonna start again with a new case. Perhaps he wouldn't have this problem with a mid-line case but then if your paying mid prices u might as well scratch build.

My lian li case has a fan at the front and one at the rear. The hard disc case is behind the first fan and so it acts like a hdd cooler too - simple and it keep the discs cool.

I always liked the fact that Dell uses ducting with large diameter fans for CPU cooling, just as effective but massively quieter.

Agreed, hard disk cooling is important, although I don't rate those hard disk coolers you get from Maplin et al. You only need a gentle breeze over the hard disks to keep them much cooler than normal, you don't need mega turbo nutter fans that sound like Concorde taking off.

 

[sk4tec]

I've swapped my lian li fans for 12 cm Akasa amber's. Hopefully my new quiet psu will arrive today (Enermax liberty). My cpu fan is rated at 19 db, so its gonna be super quiet when I fit my new psu.

Its quite expensive overall the case was 100 quid with all of the bezels!! But for me I want the best (within reason!).

Half the fun for me is comparing the specs of different components (I'm all clued up on PSU's at the moment!).

 

[R44MS_K]

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1822644,00.asp

for example

(bit busy to give a better example)

but you CAN build a PROPER killer PC for under 500!

 

[Geeba]

Only problem with the cheaper Dell stuff is alot of the components tend to be intergrated ie graphics cards... not a big fan of intergrated parts... think the original question mentioned CAD.... things like Solidworks etc are going to need a pretty hefty graphics card and a heap of memory... I'd custom build myself... PCI-E GFX and a Gig+ of RAM nearer 2 at least.!

 

[Y15HAL]

Custom building is the way forward! Heard bad things about Dell using cheap components![:$]

 

[shiuming]

Only problem with the cheaper Dell stuff is alot of the components tend to be intergrated ie graphics cards... not a big fan of intergrated parts... think the original question mentioned CAD.... things like Solidworks etc are going to need a pretty hefty graphics card and a heap of memory... I'd custom build myself... PCI-E GFX and a Gig+ of RAM nearer 2 at least.!

It all depends on the budget - at the risk of sounding like I work for Dell, they can offer systems with those technologies as well, it's down to what you're prepared to pay, and integrated graphics (and sound) these days is a hell of a lot better than it used to be, certainly more than adequate for most office users. What I'm trying to say is that like for like, the end user simply cannot match Dell or the other big players on price, no two ways about it, they have deals with Intel and Microsoft, do system design and manufacturing (not just buy in off the shelf motherboards). If someone wants decent value and quality, I'll say buy Dell. If someone wants cheap, I'll say go to PC World or some dodgy local PC shop (you know the type...). I'm personally only interested in doing custom builds on high end systems and special stuff.

I wouldn't say Dell uses cheap components, in the sense of poor quality, anything that isn't made or designed by Dell itself (motherboards, cases) is well known branded stuff like you'd find almost anywhere else. Intel processors, chipsets, the hard disks, memory, fans and sundry bits will all be as good as anything else on the market at the price and definitely better than a lot of systems I've seen. Also if you open up a Dell box and look at the internals you'll see they are quite well designed, like inside their mini systems they use SATA cables of exactly the right length, little slack, and spare power plugs have rubber grommets to cover them and stop them shorting on anything... Everything is always very tidy and engineer-friendly.

 

[Geeba]

Only problem with the cheaper Dell stuff is alot of the components tend to be intergrated ie graphics cards... not a big fan of intergrated parts... think the original question mentioned CAD.... things like Solidworks etc are going to need a pretty hefty graphics card and a heap of memory... I'd custom build myself... PCI-E GFX and a Gig+ of RAM nearer 2 at least.!

It all depends on the budget - at the risk of sounding like I work for Dell, they can offer systems with those technologies as well, it's down to what you're prepared to pay, and integrated graphics (and sound) these days is a hell of a lot better than it used to be, certainly more than adequate for most office users. What I'm trying to say is that like for like, the end user simply cannot match Dell or the other big players on price, no two ways about it, they have deals with Intel and Microsoft, do system design and manufacturing (not just buy in off the shelf motherboards). If someone wants decent value and quality, I'll say buy Dell. If someone wants cheap, I'll say go to PC World or some dodgy local PC shop (you know the type...). I'm personally only interested in doing custom builds on high end systems and special stuff.

I wouldn't say Dell uses cheap components, in the sense of poor quality, anything that isn't made or designed by Dell itself (motherboards, cases) is well known branded stuff like you'd find almost anywhere else. Intel processors, chipsets, the hard disks, memory, fans and sundry bits will all be as good as anything else on the market at the price and definitely better than a lot of systems I've seen. Also if you open up a Dell box and look at the internals you'll see they are quite well designed, like inside their mini systems they use SATA cables of exactly the right length, little slack, and spare power plugs have rubber grommets to cover them and stop them shorting on anything... Everything is always very tidy and engineer-friendly.

Agree completely!... just updated my Mums Dell PC...very well put together!, ...just some of the 300 quid deals on the telly... get the case open on one of them and you have usually 3 PCI slots spare and the rest is onboard... good until the next generation of software that comes out and need huge memory for graphics etc...

 

[Geeba]

Only problem with the cheaper Dell stuff is alot of the components tend to be intergrated ie graphics cards... not a big fan of intergrated parts... think the original question mentioned CAD.... things like Solidworks etc are going to need a pretty hefty graphics card and a heap of memory... I'd custom build myself... PCI-E GFX and a Gig+ of RAM nearer 2 at least.!

It all depends on the budget - at the risk of sounding like I work for Dell, they can offer systems with those technologies as well, it's down to what you're prepared to pay, and integrated graphics (and sound) these days is a hell of a lot better than it used to be, certainly more than adequate for most office users. What I'm trying to say is that like for like, the end user simply cannot match Dell or the other big players on price, no two ways about it, they have deals with Intel and Microsoft, do system design and manufacturing (not just buy in off the shelf motherboards). If someone wants decent value and quality, I'll say buy Dell. If someone wants cheap, I'll say go to PC World or some dodgy local PC shop (you know the type...). I'm personally only interested in doing custom builds on high end systems and special stuff.

I wouldn't say Dell uses cheap components, in the sense of poor quality, anything that isn't made or designed by Dell itself (motherboards, cases) is well known branded stuff like you'd find almost anywhere else. Intel processors, chipsets, the hard disks, memory, fans and sundry bits will all be as good as anything else on the market at the price and definitely better than a lot of systems I've seen. Also if you open up a Dell box and look at the internals you'll see they are quite well designed, like inside their mini systems they use SATA cables of exactly the right length, little slack, and spare power plugs have rubber grommets to cover them and stop them shorting on anything... Everything is always very tidy and engineer-friendly.

Agree completely!... just updated my Mums Dell PC...very well put together!, ...just some of the 300 quid deals on the telly... get the case open on one of them and you have usually 3 PCI slots spare and the rest is onboard... good until the next generation of software that comes out and need huge memory for graphics etc...

 

[redbutcher]

Building your own PC is a great way to learn how all the bits fit together - my first PC was a great learning project - including things like routing the cables out the way to increase air circulation.

I've built a few since for family mainly - my own PC is a tad dated now, but it works great, is quiet and as I built it myself I know each component inside out (I know it's sad).

However, in terms of cost, I spent a lot more than if I'd bought an off the shelf PC. Mainly because it's a fully customised PC - i.e. down to the make of CPU cooler - you can't do that with off the shelf.

Got to agree with Shiuming though, I've been impressed with Dell. I tend to buy a Dell machine to have as a machine to play around with. You can pick up mint examples from fleabay (my last 2 were ex-company machines, but were in excellent condition). Nicely put together and just, well work. OK, you can't upgrade them a huge amount, but most Dell machines are found in offices and don't need massive upgrades for what they're being used for.

 

[sk4tec]

Building your own PC is a great way to learn how all the bits fit together - my first PC was a great learning project - including things like routing the cables out the way to increase air circulation.

I've built a few since for family mainly - my own PC is a tad dated now, but it works great, is quiet and as I built it myself I know each component inside out (I know it's sad).

However, in terms of cost, I spent a lot more than if I'd bought an off the shelf PC. Mainly because it's a fully customised PC - i.e. down to the make of CPU cooler - you can't do that with off the shelf.

I have to agree with u - I know my pc inside out, I know the sound level of various fans, matching braded round cables - how sad!! I've got an enermax Liberty psu waiting to go into my pc - it will be super quiet.

I tend to have technical hobbies (geek!) my other one is model cars 2 stroke and electric, but building pcs is cheaper than running model cars [:|]

 

[Bike_Boy]

Well i have been busy,

I have found a few bits and pieces and i "think"( dont laugh )everything is covered apart from case and the cooling ( not to sure on the cooling thing ) Oops and cables too , I was a little supprised to find the total to be at the £ 500 mark with still some spending to do. I am not sure if this thing is over spec'd as i am not too sure what all the numbers are relevant to ( at this stage ) but if this seems o.k then i will go ahead as i want to learn more about my p.c

REFERENCE	DESCRIPTION	QUANTITY	PRICE	COST	REMOVE
HD-085-SE Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 200GB ST3200820AS SATA-II 8MB Cache - OEM (HD-085-SE)	£45.95	£45.95
BU-032-OK AMD Athlon 64 3000 Retail / Asus A8N-VM CSM / 1GB Geil PC3200 Value Dual Channel Kit - Bundle (BU-032-OK) CP-117-AM AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice 90nm (Socket 939) - Retail (ADA3000BPBOX) (CP-117-AM) 1 MB-119-AS Asus A8N-VM CSM Micro ATX (Socket 939) PCI Express Motherboard (MB-119-AS) 1 MY-005-GL GeIL 1GB (2x512MB) PC3200 Value Dual Channel Kit CAS2.5 (GE1GB3200BHDC) (MY-005-GL) 1	£184.97	£184.97
CD-044-LG LG GSA-H10ABRL 16x16 DVD±RW Dual Layer ReWriter (Black) - Retail (CD-044-LG)	£25.50	£25.50
SC-000-HT HDA Digital X-Mystique 7.1 Gold PCI Dolby Soundcard (SC-000-HT)	£46.30	£46.30
GX-026-BG BFG 3DFuzion GeForce 7600 GS 256MB DDR2 TV-Out/DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-026-BG)	£61.99	£61.99
CC-012-AD Adaptec AAR-1210SA SATAConnect Serial ATA Controller (CC-012-AD)	£37.20	£37.20
Subtotal	£401.91
VAT	£70.34
Total	£472.25

I only added one optical drive as i thought i could use one of my old ones,

Well guys..... Tear it apart[]

Jay