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Hi guys, got annihilated by a DSG GTI last night and just wanted to find out the following info:

1. Is the clutch the same? Does it last as long as the manual?
2. How is the DSG controlled? What happens if you chip the motor? is there an effect on the DSG?
3. Is the fuel consumption better on the DSG or not?
4. Are the gear ratios the same?

Your help is highly appreciated.
 

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Hi guys, got annihilated by a DSG GTI last night and just wanted to find out the following info:

1. Is the clutch the same? Does it last as long as the manual?
2. How is the DSG controlled? What happens if you chip the motor? is there an effect on the DSG?
3. Is the fuel consumption better on the DSG or not?
4. Are the gear ratios the same?

Your help is highly appreciated.
1. DSG has two wet clutches ( in oil ) so lifespan should be far superior.

2. DSG has it's own ECU ( ECM ) unit. Several cars with the DSG box have been chipped with no reported failures of the DSG. The official torque limit for the DSG is 350 Nm but so is the manuals box also.

3. I would imagine the fuel economy to be slightly worse, because of extra weight ( 30kgs ) of DSG, and see point 4.

4. I know that on the 2.0 TDI that the DSG has lower ratios than the manual. I would expect the same is true with the GTI.

Hope this answers your questions.
 

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The official figures do not bear out a significant difference in gear ratios (see extra-urban cruising MPG, top speed):

The DSG appears more economical, less CO2, less noise

Manual: Top Speed: 146, 0-62 7.2 sec, 25.4/44.8/34.9 MPG (Urban, Extra Urban, Combined), CO2 194, dB 75
DSG: Top Speed: 145, 0-62 6.9 sec, 26.2/44.8/35.3 MPG (Urban, Extra Urban, Combined), CO2 192, dB 74

However, the DSG requires power to operate ( = lower MPG) and will drop down gears as far as possible ( = lower MPG). This means revving the last 1k from "too low" a gear - not a decision you would make as a manual driver, but then the DSG can change gears in 0.02 secs without backing off throttle so it doesn't really care. If you leave it in manual mode presuumably it is more comparable to manual.

So if you change gears less often and cruise in the DSG (letting Auto shift to highest gear possible at all times for best fuel economy) it is better than manual. If you use the gears a lot or stamp on the throttle at every accelleration opportunity (causing more gear changes and on average lower gearing s election than a manual driver would s elect) then you get great accelleration, but poorer economy than manaul. So basiaclly it depends how you drive it.

The weight difference is a negligible 19 kg (on a 1355kg car = 1.4%). Wet plate clutches are smaller but of adiffrent material and construction. DSG oil requires changing every 40,000 miles (this is one of the upgrades made over the clunky first generation TT DSGs which used sealed longlife units - so compromised lubrication at either start or end of vehicle life - the system has been redesigned slightly and its oil is now designed to do its job with the oil being disposable after use degradation)
 

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The official figures do not bear out a significant difference in gear ratios (see extra-urban cruising MPG, top speed):

The DSG appears more economical, less CO2, less noise

Manual: Top Speed: 146, 0-62 7.2 sec, 25.4/44.8/34.9 MPG (Urban, Extra Urban, Combined), CO2 194, dB 75
DSG: Top Speed: 145, 0-62 6.9 sec, 26.2/44.8/35.3 MPG (Urban, Extra Urban, Combined), CO2 192, dB 74

However, the DSG requires power to operate ( = lower MPG) and will drop down gears as far as possible ( = lower MPG). This means revving the last 1k from "too low" a gear - not a decision you would make as a manual driver, but then the DSG can change gears in 0.02 secs without backing off throttle so it doesn't really care. If you leave it in manual mode presuumably it is more comparable to manual.

So if you change gears less often and cruise in the DSG (letting Auto shift to highest gear possible at all times for best fuel economy) it is better than manual. If you use the gears a lot or stamp on the throttle at every accelleration opportunity (causing more gear changes and on average lower gearing s election than a manual driver would s elect) then you get great accelleration, but poorer economy than manaul. So basiaclly it depends how you drive it.

The weight difference is a negligible 19 kg (on a 1355kg car = 1.4%). Wet plate clutches are smaller but of adiffrent material and construction. DSG oil requires changing every 40,000 miles (this is one of the upgrades made over the clunky first generation TT DSGs which used sealed longlife units - so compromised lubrication at either start or end of vehicle life - the system has been redesigned slightly and its oil is now designed to do its job with the oil being disposable after use degradation)
0.3 secs better to 60mph is quite a lot, so must come from a combination of both the DSG changing faster than manual, BUT also lower ratios. The 6th gear will be the same ratio, to give better cruising / same top end speed as manual.

The DSG was never sealed for life. The early TT's needed the oil changing early at 20k because of a design fault in the lenthe of filter / fill plug which sets the oil level. This part was too short meaning there wasn't enough oil in the DSG box. Now this has been sorted, all DSG boxes need oil change every 40k.

The GTI is meant to be driven hard, not pootling around on a motorway all day. So if this is the case then the DSG will return slightly less to the gallon.

In my opinion though, the DSG is worth it.
 

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In performance terms, the only benefit I can see - according to VWs GTI brochure is a .03 of a second quicker time to 60 mph??

So I fail to see how a DSG could "annihilate" a manual GTI without either 1) a rubbish driver being involved or 2) a remap on the DSG car.

We're still talking about two cars with both 200bhp here if we're not saying one is remapped. [Y]
 

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Just to add to the topic i have had 2 gt tdis in the space of 8 months one was a manual which i had re-mapped,and the one i have now which is the dsg which i had re mapped yesterday.In my opinion the dsg is deffo a lot quicker than the manual..And im no slouch when i comes to driving a manual..But its everyone to there own,me personaly i would now only have a auto box..
 

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So someone got annihilated by a DSG GTI.....TeeHee....But how did you know it was a DSG version?

As an enthusiastic Mk5 GTI DSG driver (coming soon to your rear view mirror!) I can tell you that, of course subject to driver ability/skill/conditions, the GTI is always going to have the edge. Not only is this due to everything very informatively and extensively posted by both Japper and M4XVW, but the whole of the GTI's platform is much better sorted out and designed for performance than the rest of the Mk5 range (excluding newest R32).

DSG is neither a conventional automatic or only a tiptronic manual....It is the best of BOTH worlds. Come over and visit Tyresmoke.net and the Mk5 GTI forum where we don't discuss much else, so addicted and smitten with this car as we all are!

The Mk5 GTI is truly an awesome car and didn't win all its awards without justification.
 

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Great info M4XVW!

Additionally DSG has a S-mode: Sports mode is aggressive and takes the revs thresholds up in each gear to near redline. And it gets even better: Whether in 'economy' (relatively speaking of course!) D-mode or S-mode, you can click the paddleshifts to instantly manually change gears (4th straight to 2nd suit you?). If you don't use the paddles for a further 20 secs it will revert to the D/S-mode or you can side shift the floor shift from D and remain 'manual'.

It's so cool it's hot stuff! It's evolution and technology at its best!

Try DSG out on a Mk5 TDI for example if you can't test a GTI.
 

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"Irish" wrote: "Eh would you like to tell us which one??"

....No, I'm not going to be drawn into a long argument about 'mine's bigger or better than yours!' etc.

Just go and drive any of the STANDARD Mk5 Golf range (apart from new R32) and then drive a STANDARD Mk5 GTI....I'm fairly confident you'll be able to feel 'the edge', especially if you try a DSG version in Sports mode or manual paddleshift. If you have read my post you'll see I have already answered your question.

If you take the example of ONLY remapping any of the range to match the GTI's 200bhp, the GTI still has the edge regarding systems handling. Sorry but the "GTI" on the Mk5 is now more than a badge.

There's always going to be someone else who is better off or worse off than either you or I....Does it really matter?
 

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"Irish" wrote: "Eh would you like to tell us which one??" ....No, I'm not going to be drawn into a long argument about 'mine's bigger or better than yours!' etc.
Jesus Christ give me patience....

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE DSG GTI Vs THE MANUAL GTI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I said "would you like to tell us which one" I meant GTI - MANUAL OR DSG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you read ANY of the start of the thread or what??? You just butted in with 'my GTI is great'.

[:^)]
 

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"sadsack" wrote:?"Sounds like your mummy bought you a new toy"

....It's unclear if it's me you're referring to but, if so, it's good to re-acquaint oneself with such elated feelings. Most people who have bought a new Mk5 GTI are still smiling thousands of miles later....It's an exceptional car and worthy of getting enthusiastic about :)

The trick is enjoy and be satisfied with whatever car you've got.
 

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The GTI is a lovely car, I'm thinking of buying one but 1) it's not the best car in the world like you're making out and 2) answer the question!!!! And no, not the "is the GTI better than the GTI" question!
 

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Hey "Irish"....Stay cool! I think we've unfortunately misinterpreted each other's posts....You surely know it's easily done with only written words and no tone or body language.

Your words were minimal and I misinterpreted your 'edge' question. For what it's worth I'll certainly answer you in a post later today.

Apologies....No harm meant! Stay cool :)
 

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I think it's safe to say you misinterpreted pretty much everything here...

I didn't ask anything about an edge??

This thread was up until now anyway, a group of us talking about the DSG Vs Manual gearbox in the GTI.

We weren't comparing the GTI to any other car, we were comparing the GTI to the GTI, just with different gearboxes.

Is it becoming a little clearer now? [;)]
 

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"Irish" wrote: "Eh would you like to tell us which one??" ....No, I'm not going to be drawn into a long argument about 'mine's bigger or better than yours!' etc.
Jesus Christ give me patience....
I don't think he's on the forum any more mate, moved onto Briskoda I think, when he got his Occy estate - it's one of those "loaves and fishes" cars [;)]
 

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Hey "Irish"....Stay cool! I think we've unfortunately misinterpreted each other's posts....You surely know it's easily done with only written words and no tone or body language. Either way, such outbursts are....well, need I say?

Your words were minimal and I misinterpreted your 'edge' question. For what it's worth I'll certainly try to answer you in a post later today.

Apologies....No harm meant! Stay cool :)
 
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