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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello
I am eventually going to fit my focal components into the front doors of my MKIV using the original positions. Thing is, I can see from the Haynes manual that there is a rubber ring thing that I guess helps seal the face of the speaker to help with sound quality (let me know if I am barking up the wrong tree here!!). I would like to re-use this.?I'm guessing (not looked yet, so plenty of guess work, sorry) that it is glued in place or clipped to the speaker. The problem I have is that my Focal speakers are only 125mm and I will have to make an adapter ring as it is so fitting the rubber ring might be tricky. Has anyone fitted smaller speakers to their MKIV and retained this rubber wotsit ?
If it makes a difference, my car is a 1.8T 2000 3 door and has quite good speakers already - just not as good as the Focal's.
 

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Its not glued or anything, just kind of clips in place. The standard speakers are only 5.25" I think (a round 5" mark) so you might find they fit. I am fitting 6.5" drivers in place of mine and was condsidering my options with this, as I have the opposite problem to you of them being too small.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Blimey, that's a fast reply !? And good news for me, I thought they were bigger. Anyway, do you know if they will clip onto my speakers or are they designed to fit into holes pressed into original ones?? I could just glue them otherwise.
Good luck with yours, Autoleads do adapters but not looked into ones in your size. They have a website that isn't so helpful.
 

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I have a couple of the Autoleads adaptors, but I can't say I am that impressed, so I plan on making up my own mdf baffles. Thought about removing the speaker grill from the door so I can clearly see how deep to make the mount, and perhaps consider creating some kind of seal to the speaker. Wait and see how it sounds first.

The rubber ring simply fits on the original speaker mount, no holes, just has a stretchy lip which fits around it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Those adapter rings can be beefed up with fibreglass to strenghten them, could be worth it if you have them already though I haven't tried this myself. I made them in the past with just MDF though and that went OK, but that was easier cos it was the same size as original, just needed to convert it from 3 screw holes to 4 and make space for bigger magnet.
I was thinking of sealing off mine when they were in a MkII as I got no mid-bass at all from them. Never did get around to it. I'm hoping they sound better in the MkIV.... which is why I'm rattling on about that rubber ring ! !? I'm convinced it helps !
Are you using existing speaker cable ?? Not made up my mind yet wether to replace it or not (lazy way is much quicker and probably sounds as good).
 

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The standard speaker size in a Mk.4 Golf is 6in or 16cm.I wouldn't worry about whether you can reuse the rubber rings or not,as you're mounting your nice high quality speakers several inches behind the door card,and firing through a somewhat restrictive plastic grill,with one of them firing its total output at your ankles,and one at the passengers ankles.If you look at any high quality home or reference speakers,the drive units are always mounted on top of the baffle,and not flushed into them.The only way you'll get anywhere near the full potential from your Focals would be to mount them on custom made pods on the outside of your doorcards,and angled upwards so they are aimed straight at your ears,and also because of the highly reflective nature all of the car above chest height (windows etc),the tweeters should be kept as low as possible,also angled towards your ears,which also helps to equalize path lengths for better imaging and staging.
The advice about making spacers from MDF is good,and also it is so easy to get better speaker wires into the doors as the rubber boot is almost big enough to get your hand trough,it would be a crime not to.The doors on a Mk.4 Golf have to be one of the best mobile speaker cabinets ever built because of the very good seal from the metal inner skin,but they can still be improved upon with application of sound deadening mats.

Chris.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Imagewerx
You sound like you know the doors of a MkIV quite well, I havent looked yet so maybe you can help me save time on preparation.It looks like I need to make MDF adapter rings, and seeing as my speakers are smaller than the original ones (meaning more space to position them), would it be possible to angle my MDF rings and bring the speakers closer to the grill. Or is the space too tight to do this.
I'm not wanting to make pods as I prefer the look of standard doors... they look spot on as it is, and with road noise, engine noise and the fact that half my CD's will be from MP3's, the sound quality gets a good kicking anyway. Although, for the times when I have a great original CD, and I'm sat in quiet traffic queues, I want the best sound possible.
I'll add a sheet of sound deadener to each door too.
 

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It might be possible to angle your speakers, but I am not sure if you'd benefit without altering the door panel. I was thinking of using 2 18mm mdf rings with the speakers mounted onto them, and an additional 18mm ring inside the door panel, giving it extra stength. I have dynamatted the outer skin, and will be dynamatting the inner door panel and adding some foam between the door card and the door, and see how much that improves things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Necromax
Are you using Dynamat or some other brand ?? Basically, I am thinking of trying 'eDead' from eBay, much cheaper than dynamat and probably as good. Thing is, the ad says that it is 45mm thick !?!? Surely this should be 4.5mm as it doesn't look so thick from the pic.
Anyone used this stuff ?
Anyway, I can't afford the Genesis amp that I want (cheapest) so the Focal are only being run off an Alpine HU, so no need to stress to much about sound quality yet I guess.?
 

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I am using dynamat extreme, but I won't be buying any more. I bought three boxes & a boot kit to do my IS200, I did the boot, rear shelf, under the rear seas then ended up selling the car! Have a box and a half left, so starting with doors this time. I was looking at eDead & also R-blox, as they are both much cheaper than dynamat. Looking at sound proof underlay too, mainly for boot, floor & under seats, but might see if it will stick to the outer skin of the rear doors as I want to mount Focal 5ws in there for piping some bass directly into the car as opposed to the boot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm a schmuck!? Just looked at the ad again and it's 45mil, which isn't mm !
Like the idea of those Focals in the rear doors!
I also heard of 'Second Skin', as used on 'Pimp My Ride' !? ?Expensive from some places here in UK (10sq foot was ?80, but I saw an american site that had it for 27 dollars, which is well cheap..... if they deliver to UK!
 

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All the different brands of sound deadening mat are much of muchness really,they all work in the same way,and are made from very similar materials.just use whatever is easiest to get hold of at the time.You can actually do more to break up the resonance of a big panel by sticking randomly sized and shaped patches of the mat in random positions than by using one continuous thin layer over the whole panel,if you have a spare cymbal from a drumkit laying around,this is very easy to demonstrate.
Although there is room to fit an 8in speaker in the front doors,if you tried to angle even a small speaker upwards,you'd end up masking more of it than before you started.Before you finally mount your tweeters,just try sticking them with Blutac down on the kickpanels,but angled towards your ears,people think I'm mad when I say this,but listen with some good music,and let your ears be the judge.

Chris.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the advice with the mat, saves a bit of money that way too !
I'll try the speaker position but I know I won't want to build pods or cut holes... unless door cards are really cheap!I guess people think you're mad because with home hi-fi we all get told that speakers should be at head (ear) height... but it is all about axis I suppose !?I was tempted to use the round air vent in the ends of the dash... but that is lazy and i do'nt want to mess up the air-flow that de-mists the windows.
 

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You're in a totally different environment in your home,a car has to be the worst place ever to try and recreate a realistic soundstage.The low placement is for a couple of reasons,the first is to get closer to equalizing the path lengths,although still not equal,it's a lot better than the standard position in the sail panels.The second is keep them clear of as many reflective surfaces as possible,as reflected high frequency sound is the easiest way to totally destroy all the information needed for your ears to reassemble an accurate stereo image,I personally hate the sound of dash or A pillar mounted tweeters,it makes them sound a lot brighter than is natural.
Because our ears are left and right,we are very good at localizing the horizontal source of any sound,but very bad at localizing it vertically,our brain tells us the sound source is wherever our eyes are looking,but only if as much as the information in the original program material is still intact,which it isn't after lots of different reflections.It's also important to keep the physical seperation betwen the mids and tweets as close as possible,with the mid low down in the door,and the tweeters at ear level,you hear two distinct sources of sound,which is wrong.Why not try mounting your tweeters behind the grill on a strip of thin metal which can be bent so that they are angled towards your ears as much as possible,easy with the passenger door,just a touch trickier with the drivers door.

Chris.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You're tempting me now... might look into that, but I think I'll do a quick fix. I've had the car since feburary and been too lazy to sort it yet. See how I feel when I book a few days off. Good thing is, I'm not as worried about that rubber ring thing anymore!!? Gonna look at just getting the speaker angled, or just fitting it closer to the grill.Thanks for the inspiration!?
hmmm. decisions decisions.
 

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I have a set of horns which I plan on fitting under the dash, and I was going to use OEM location for a pair of tweeters playing 8k up.. I have been toying with the idea of putting them on the a pillars, but am torn, as I want to maintain a stealth approach. I have seen/heard tweeter placements in the footwells and they do work very well
 

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I have a set of horns which I plan on fitting under the dash, and I was going to use OEM location for a pair of tweeters playing 8k up.. I have been toying with the idea of putting them on the a pillars, but am torn, as I want to maintain a stealth approach. I have seen/heard tweeter placements in the footwells and they do work very well
What horns are you using,as you shouldn't need to use tweeters with them? I had USD horns in my Prelude,although the cheapies with the piezo compression drivers,the dynamics from them was awesome,better than any conventional tweeters I've heard.I've got my DLS soft dome mids and tweeters in kick panel pods,and the sound stage is at eye level,I'd never put them anywhere else now.

Chris.
 

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I've got some Image Dynamics CD1-Pros, the tweets are Morel CR-103 soft dome tweets. You are right, I might not need them, but you never know until you try, right? I have a pair of Morel WR-4 mids to go in the kicks, and a pair of Morel WR-6 midbass for the doors. A friend of mine simply has midbass & horns, and swears by it. I want the mids because they should be able to handle all the 'voice' frequencies, midbass speak for themselves, horns play from1khz up, and I thought 8k up for the soft dome tweets. Will have to wait and see what it sounds like. I have a Pioneer DEX-P9R with DEQ-P9 to help drive it all, which will be married to Phase Linear modular amps :)
 
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