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OK,

I'm sure there's people out there who disapprove of the kinds of questions I'm asking, but I'm wondering about getting my 105bhp 1.9tdi remapped, probably by REVO.

I'm wondering if VW dealers would ever check for a remap, i.e. when the car is in for service? Or if there was a problem that could be related to a remap e.g. clutch, turbo? I'm looking at the switchable system that would enable me to revert to the original mapping whenever I wanted, so test drives etc. wouldn't be a give-away. I understand that they probably could identify a remap if they specifically checked the ECU, as of course there would be two maps in there.

Also, under what circumstances would an insurance company have the car ECU inspected with diagnostics software? I assume it would only be in the event of an accident thats was my fault and if the car was sitting in a pile in some garage somewhere?

Finally, if I want rid of the remap totally, can the ECU be restored totally to how it was, without any evidence it was ever tampered with?

Cheers,

Mike
 

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if you are going to get your car re-mapped, you MUST declare it to your insurers..imagine that you have an accident and that your insurers don't pay out a penny..all for the sake off what may be only ?50-?100 extra.

I don't believe that dealers will "routinely" check for a re-map, but if they have reason to believe that the car is re-mapped and you are trying to make a warranty claim relating to engine / clutch etc etc, then they might. Having said that, I have had a new ECU, turbo and DM flywheel - all covered by warranty. My car has just been serviced and no problems there...although they didn't stamp the service book either[:mad:]
 

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I can answer both parts :)

One of my dealers is a main agent VW dealership in london.

They dont check for remaps even on damaged cars but they do check for checksum correction, so if you get the car done at a reputable dealer this wont cause you a problem.

My wifes best mates husband is an underwriter for Lloyds and they send out people every day of the week each doing around 5-7 cars checking them for modifications after crashes and theft claims.

They use a tool called direct obd to check the checksum on the car so again, if you use a reputable company this wont be an issue.

As above though, you legally have to tell your insurers, it could cost you everything you have if you dont.
 

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I can answer both parts :)

One of my dealers is a main agent VW dealership in london.

They dont check for remaps even on damaged cars but they do check for checksum correction, so if you get the car done at a reputable dealer this wont cause you a problem.

My wifes best mates husband is an underwriter for Lloyds and they send out people every day of the week each doing around 5-7 cars checking them for modifications after crashes and theft claims.

They use a tool called direct obd to check the checksum on the car so again, if you use a reputable company this wont be an issue.

As above though, you legally have to tell your insurers, it could cost you everything you have if you dont.
Hi

Could you tell me more about checksum, as my car is has a checksum error showing up on Vagcom this is causing the engine check light to stay on, I put this down to an APR trail I had a few years back, but the error has only shown it's self over the last 6 months.

Cheers.
 

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If you imagine the whole of the data on the psop (chip on your ecu) collectively add`s up to a final figure, lets say AC2D this is the checksum.

This is the figure the insurers or VW check.

When you map a car this figure changes due to modifications in the software so we have to use other methods to alter it back to original.

With earlier cars this figure can differ and the car run ok, on later models the car can possibly not start if this figure doesnt match.
 

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Thanks for the info.

The car seems to run OK, it's just the engine check light that's annoying me.

Is this easy to cure.
 

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yes, i personally would overwrite the ecu code with a standard map to put to original completely and the fault code would go (if this is the error)
 

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If you imagine the whole of the data on the psop (chip on your ecu) collectively add`s up to a final figure, lets say AC2D this is the checksum.

This is the figure the insurers or VW check.

When you map a car this figure changes due to modifications in the software so we have to use other methods to alter it back to original.

With earlier cars this figure can differ and the car run ok, on later models the car can possibly not start if this figure doesnt match.
Interesting. So what you're saying is that you re-map a car and the modification stills shows the original checksum. To the loss adjuster, the car is then perceived to be standard?
 

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I think some of you guys have the wrong perception about a 'checksum', basicly the flash chip/eprom on your ECU runs a program, this program needs to have a correct checksum to run. Without the checksum being correct then the program won't run (with the exception of a checksum error that is not covered in program code, which throws up a 65535 error). All tuner's need to modify the checksum once the original coding has been altered, again or the car won't run.

It is impossible for any VAG dealer using the normal VAS tester to calculate a checksum of an ecu coding, let alone to know if the checksum is the original and unmodified one! All the dealer can do is check the flash history of the ECU in question to see what dates a marker was added, an then check this to see if the car has actually had or needed a s/w update, but this is rare. Good tuner's ensure there is no tag in flash history for the dealer to check.

I'm not aware of any insurance company that has the capability of also checking for a remapped/tuned car, take this example. Say an insurance company purchases all the equipment needed to read/write the flash on all popular tuned cars, the engineer then has to plug into the wrecked car (assuming it is safe to do so), dump the file from the ECU (which would not be possible if the tuner has added markers to protect they're file, but lets just suppose it is), the engineer now has in they're possesion a dump from a wrecked car, they now need an exact original from that car to compare the file they just read to see if it has in fact been modified, and to what extent. They now cease to be engineers an become engine tuners. But this is all assumptions because in reality this would never happen. Even with the advances in modern Airbag systems that record your speed, direction of travel, number of passengers etc. the insurance companies still don't an probaly never will for many a year have the technology to interrogate these systems.

So you can all sleep well at night knowing the dealer will never know your car has been tuned unless they actually drive it ;) An knowing that the insurance company also don't have the technology to 'discover' tuned cars.
 

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They dont check for remaps even on damaged cars but they do check for checksum correction, so if you get the car done at a reputable dealer this wont cause you a problem.

My wifes best mates husband is an underwriter for Lloyds and they send out people every day of the week each doing around 5-7 cars checking them for modifications after crashes and theft claims.

They use a tool called direct obd to check the checksum on the car so again, if you use a reputable company this wont be an issue.
Lmao ,, What ever drugs your taking ,, i want some .

This is the most rediculas comment ive ever herd of in the tuning industry.

Is this customer scare tactics to make them belive you do something specail when you tune a car ?? , I realy carnt understand the point in this post at all.

Unless of course you intend to make your self look silly as a tuner may be !!

Regards Bell
 

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if that is the case....what is the point of declaring your car is now "chipped" then???

Are you saying there is none and we should all drive around safe in knowledge insurers will pay regardless of our car being chipped or not chipped?

Hmmm
 

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HI

What im trying to say is that an insurer will never be able to read the ecu,s chq sum as sujested in one of the previous posts from the ecu on its own ( They could buy the same tools we tuners use and TRY to read the FULL file ) Then possibily extract the chq sun from the file,,

BUT even if they did manage to get the tools and knowhow to do so they can not ever say it has been modded by X ammount. or chq sum 7FA3 = a seat leon tuned to 190bhp !!!

Remember car insurers are insurance men NOT ECU specialists.

BUT in realitiy to abide by the law it is advised that you tell your insurer of ANY modifications to your car. Even if it is a simlpe tyre size change,, radio change,, uprated intercooler etc etc.

Simple answer is IF the insurer realy realy wanted to find out if the ecu is modded they would have it removed and sent to a specalist and chqed by a expert. I very much doubt this would ever hapen tho.
 

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Simple answer is IF the insurer realy realy wanted to find out if the ecu is modded they would have it removed and sent to a specalist and chqed by a expert. I very much doubt this would ever hapen tho.
Actually it probably happens more than you think. Imagine causing a multiple pile up inflicting long term care needs on many people. The claim could easily run into millions easily. If the insurance company suspected that the car was remapped they would pay the few hundred pounds it costs for expert analysis.
 

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Loyds of london have been doing this for a while, there loss adjusters have the capability to read the dme code off the ecu.

this is fact not fiction.

If you would like to argue please call underwriters dept at Lloyds, five ways, birmingham to confirm.

Please dont continue to argue with everything i say, its looking tedious and your making yourself look a fool.
 

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P.S) per totaltuning`s reply.

You DO NOT have to have a matched checksum for the car to run, it will run on many varient codes and i do mean many.

The ori checksum is speicifc to a car/brand etc etc but this doesnt stop it running if it is different (unless of course to a detrimental level)
 

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Hi Mike,

As far as I'm aware most remaps are undetectable by VW or so the Software companies say...but I'm sure that if an insurance company is looking for something, they generally find it and to be honest it is not worth it. Remaps can be erased and the standard map put back on. I know Revo do his as part of their satisfaction guarantee.

Most on here have remapped cars and a lot people say they have not been charged a lot more for the remap. In the end it is always worth declaring mods like that because if are involved in a crash..and the insurance company void your claim (believe me this is what they really want and how they make money) you could be out of pocket..Big Time! So it's not worth it. try getting some quotes or looking at the 'Insurance' section of this forum, plenty of advice on discounts, good insurance companies and with a lot of people who were in your position and been there and done it.

Good luck
 

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A quick search came up with a Mr Jeffries of Widnes England who was prosecuted at Crown Court in 2005 November.

Mr Jeffries had been driving a 2002 registered Astra Turbo sports car when he crashed into a parked car on Trafford Road at 11.35pm on June 16th.

Mr Jeffries was arrested at the scene with a female passenger and charged with driving with undue care and attention but in a landmark case Mr Jeffries was also charged with driving without insurance due to his extensively modified car.

Mr Jeffries had not informed his insurers N.I.G about modifications he had performed to his car including alloy wheels and an engine power upgrade.

N.I.G had checked the car for alterations and found the car to be producing in excess of 20% more power than it was originally built with and Mr Jeffries had failed to inform them accordingly.

Mr Jeffries was filed with additional charged of "Gaining pecuniary advantage", "Driving without a valid insurance certificate" and "Failure to notify".

He was banned from driving for 12 months, given 120 hours community service and ordered to pay ?4300 compensation and court costs totalling ?840.

N.I.G commented "We are becoming increasingly aware of people altering there vehicles without informing there brokers/underwriters and we will take appropriate action to stop this trend from spreading".
 

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I think its more a case of if the insurer turns up and see's a car will full exhaust, FMIC, suspension etc they will null the claim. If they see a car that is stock do you think they'd check for a remap? I'd say it'd be unlikely.
 

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I think its more a case of if the insurer turns up and see's a car will full exhaust, FMIC, suspension etc they will null the claim. If they see a car that is stock do you think they'd check for a remap? I'd say it'd be unlikely.
I Agree
 
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