[andymac]

Today i realised I really am not happy with my car, yes its good quality, its hard wearing, reasonable to run.

Now when I bought it I knew the Mk4 had a tendency to be dull, have
poor handling and lack any real dynamics in the chassis department, i
also knew the 4motion was notoriously undersprung and underdamped, so
when I was looking for one I realised I would have to mod it which I
hadnt done to a car for 10 years, I have done all this fitted
konigsports and r32 arb's and renewed the bushes, overall I thought the
car drove great.

However for the past 2 days I have had My old Pug 306 Gti6 back (I sold
it to my brother and he has leant it to me) and although its done 70000
miles (10thou less than the golf) with virtually zero maintenance, it
showed me how poor the golf is

• Basically the peugeot handles far better than the golf, there is
  true chassis feedback, if you want to understeer or oversteer you can,
• The pug goes where you point it, in the mk4 its hard to tell were
  you pointing it,you have to use the wheel as refernce sometimes
• It STOPS the mk4 brakes are rubbish, despite the fluid changes etc the brakes are just to small for a heavy car.
• the golfs gears are all wrong despite being a v6, you cant get to
  60 in second, whereas the little 4 pot pug can get to 70 in 2nd, but
  yet they are bothing revving the same at 70mph in 6th gear, the golfs
  gears are much to short
• the v6 feels strangle next to the all aliminum 4pot, I know its
  not a high revvig engine, but despite the low gears it feels positively
  asmatic above 4000 rpm
• Despite my chassis mods the Pug is still very rolly in the corners, it made me realise none of my previous cars were like this.

TBH I am know seriously considering not getting an r32, as I think I
will feel let down everytime I drive a different sports car, I am a
driver I like a good chassis and brakes,I grew up racing karts, and
today I realised that the quality of plastics and interiors and paint,
and materials is secondary to what I really want in a vehicle. What I
really want is to stop, go round corners fast, and accelarate
efficiently as possible,

After today I am seriously considering buying a car that handles well
out the box, just to get over the disapointment of this, probablly
subaru or mitsubishi

 

[Gti Fly]

To be honest, it is always gonna be obvious that a 4motion is gonna be pants compared to the 306Gti6

That car was pretty much voted as one of the ALL TIME best ever hot hatches period.

The 4motion was never ever sold/marketed as a hothatch, and
it is UNFAIR to think that it is one. It was always
billed as a GT cruiser, rather than anything else, hence the
SOGGY suspension, the LAZY gearing, the LAZY engine, the WOOD trim
LOL!!!

4motions are great cars, but its sooo unfair to compare it to a Hot Hatch King like the 306gti6

On another note, I'd agree with your comment on getting something
fast/sorted outta the box. This week my friend took me out
in his Mitsubishi Evo MR 8.5 (UK car, but with HKS decat
straight thru, HKS airflter, standard ECU, 340-350bhp,
Yokohama Advan tyres). That car simply blows everything else
outta the water, its impossible to explain how it
accelarated/stopped/changed direction. Catch a ride
in one and you'll wonder why we all spend XXX amount doing up our Golfs!

 

[maxGTI]

Agreed with GTI Fly really. I think you are comparing apples with oranges. Heck, the 4-motion was even voted best caravan puller of the year in 2000 by Caravan Magazine (not that I'm a buyer of this magazine)! The Pug GTI-6 will show a clean pair of heels to all but possibly the nimblest Golf. Having said that, I think you really should go and test drive the R32. This has been billed as the best MkIV Golf ever built and until the Golf V GTI was released, the best handling Golf ever. I test drove one and its an amazing drive. Unfortunately, thought I couldn't afford to run it hence settling for an Anni.instead. To finish off, every R32 test drive I read about, the VW always won and that includes one test against a Scooby!

~ Maxie

 

[evilhomer]

Agreed with GTI Fly really. I think you are comparing apples with oranges. Heck, the 4-motion was even voted best caravan puller of the year in 2000 by Caravan Magazine (not that I'm a buyer of this magazine)! The Pug GTI-6 will show a clean pair of heels to all but possibly the nimblest Golf. Having said that, I think you really should go and test drive the R32. This has been billed as the best MkIV Golf ever built and until the Golf V GTI was released, the best handling Golf ever. I test drove one and its an amazing drive. Unfortunately, thought I couldn't afford to run it hence settling for an Anni.instead. To finish off, every R32 test drive I read about, the VW always won and that includes one test against a Scooby!

~ Maxie

Unfortunately andy, if your that unhappy with yours after upgrading the suspension, dont bother with the 32. Mine easily outhandled the 32, and I had a similar suspension setup to you, allbeit branded koni. The coilovers are FAR superior to that of the r32 boggo suspension, and have to say that after the changes I made I was much hapier about all but the power over the R. (And you can achieve near that with a decent exhaust induction and remap.

If your a true driver, then the gti in the golf pretty much died with the mk1 and mk2--- However, I WAS impressed by the handling od the new gti.

 

[andymac]

I suppose thats what i am saying, I knew the 4mot wasnt perfect so I
put the best mods on psossible and was very imprssed, but I was fooled
really because I was impressed as the comparisons I was making were
with the original 4motion gear so it felt great, now this was great
untill I went and drove a benchmark, and realise that there is till a
massive gap between the 2, as far as I can see the only thing I aint
got that an R32 has is a quick rack and 30 bhp.

I will test an R32 but I think I may well go and look at both a subaru Forester and a Focus RS

 

[evilhomer]

I suppose thats what i am saying, I knew the 4mot wasnt perfect so I put the best mods on psossible and was very imprssed, but I was fooled really because I was impressed as the comparisons I was making were with the original 4motion gear so it felt great, now this was great untill I went and drove a benchmark, and realise that there is till a massive gap between the 2, as far as I can see the only thing I aint got that an R32 has is a quick rack and 30 bhp.

I will test an R32 but I think I may well go and look at both a subaru Forester and a Focus RS

Quite correct..... however, I think what will happen is you will feel the exact opposite after a period of time in one of the other vehicles you mention. you will miss decent solid feel, and quailty in the build. Yes the VW's of today are not a smechanically reliable ast they once were, but they asre still better than a lot of their peers. Nasty focus build quality, nasty plastics, nasty trim in general.... the scenes for those cars are just low in comparison to what we have with VW/Audi.

As mentioned before though, a true driver will look elsewhere for their kicks. (scoobies, evo's etc)

Still think the 4mo, is one of the best value cars you can buy.... especially when you buy one like yours or mine, with all the problems gone, and looking great

[]

 

[Foxy]

VW's are heavy - handling issues aint really headline news []

Buy a mk5 GTi - then you'll know what VW can really achieve out of the box.

 

[AdeMcG]

Hmm, You really are comparing apples with pears, agree with the comments already posted.

But your should never of been under any illusion that the 4-motion was a "hot-hatch" VW have not made a true Hot hatch since the demise of the Mk1 golf Gti.

I agree with Foxy too, if you want something straight from the box that will handle like a hot hatch of old, then a MK V Gti should satisfy you, plus you have all the usual benefts of VW ownership, solid build, impecable image and bomb proof residuals, which, lets be honest no other car (including those you mentioned, Evo or Scooby) can match. Considering you live in Liverpool I am amazed you are even thinnking along the lines of the Focus RS, it screams "Take me, take me now" !!!! to every chav that ever donned a tracky (I guess I can get away with saying this being born in Fazakkkk-leeee []).

Ade

 

[Richard W]

BMW time then.......[]

Nobodies mentioned an Elise yet. The Scoobies and Mitsis are excellent at what they do, but I'd ask do you want a real chassis like the Lotus or simply a well developed car with grunt like one of the 4wd cars. Yes the Elise probably isn't as fast as them but for chassis purity I've heard they're absolutely brilliant and there's always an Exige to think about....

 

[EstorilBlue]

I have to be honest, the Golf isnt the best handling car in the world. My Mitsubishi GTO goes through corners like they were not there (4wd, 4ws). However I think the brakes on my GTI are very good, and are some of the best brakes ive used (bear in mind I drive ALOT of cars in my line of work), and now that ive uprated the brakes to black diamond discs and pads the car stops on a dime (only uprated brakes cause they were getting a little old, so took the chance to upgrade rather than buy vw stuff...which was more expensive anyway!).

And as for the Elise...biggest pile of monkey crap ever! No power steering, no electric windows, no aircon...crappy cd player. Sure its all about the "Driving experience", but gees...combine it with the price tag and all you have is a glorfied go cart. Its great if you a a rich midget and want a track car, but as a practical everyday car....they truly suck. In terms of straight line speed...my Revo'd Golf is faster, and the only way that the lotus can get away is through the corners. Believe me....ive had several encounters, and driven a few elises. Shudder!

 

[burnsyV6]

I know what you saying andy, I traded in my Clio 172 cup for the 4mo as I was doing a lot of motorway driving which the golf is perfect for. Now I do about 50 miles max a week and I know exactly where I am going once the mo is sold. Straight back to a clio - be it a cup or trophy.

Yes dodgy build and service but the drive was awesome. I Would consider an Evo but the insurance and running costs are way out of my league now I have my pad.

I could hammer my old clio all day long and would still pull over 30mpg at the end of the day. You only see that in the golf on the motorway (Just)!!! ....and the only time it went back to Renault was for services, can't say that for the VW!

If you are looking for cheap out of the box fun the clio is a must IMO, if you have not driven one yet definately have a go.

 

[dlyall]

• the golfs gears are all wrong despite being a v6, you cant get to 60 in second, whereas the little 4 pot pug can get to 70 in 2nd, but yet they are bothing revving the same at 70mph in 6th gear, the golfs gears are much to short
  

Quite surprised by that. Our 150bhp V5 would do just over 60 in 2nd. It had a lovely set of ratios. Is the V6 gearing really so different?

 

[andymac]

Thanks for the comments guys, yes I know the 4mot isnt an all out hot
hatch, but I remember the first time I saw the 4motion and it was on
driven and jason plato was testing it against the accord type r, and
since then I have always wanted one, I even had the ATR before the
4motion, now when I think back I have no idea how Driven could have
gotten the 4motion round a track as fast as a Honda, these such a
massive gulf between the 2 cars,

Now i know the 4motion is a gt cruiser, but even with the mods the
chassis is still totally dull and uninspiring, My dads diesel Jag
is a real cruiser and that has a chassis ten times better than my
4motion, it doesnt matter whether I compare the 4motion to an executive
class 2 ton saloon or a 10 year old clapped out hot hatch, the chassis
and brakes are rubbish, and I just feel a bit miffed that after all
this money and tinkering i am still nowhere near the car I would like.

I really want 4wd so my shortlist at the moment for a test drive
is R32, Baby Jaguar AWD 2.5 V6 (dont slate it they handle better than a
4mot) Subaru Forester WRX, Audi A3 3.2 (dont hold up much hope
for this one) BMW is not an option for me, I hate them for
various reasons or an Older evo (I dont fancy to much of an old one and
new ones a bit too expensive) Any ideas

 

[Richard W]

BMW is not an option for me, I hate them for various reasons

I know! just pulling your leg again....[]

I like the Forester suggestion - they're supposed to be great fun, not as sharp as the Impreza, but much more practical and less 'pull me officer' image. I assume you've been reading Evo's long term reports about thiers, good reports from what I remember.

Is an A4 too big? older S4 or newer 3.0 quattro sport? or maybe a C32 AMG (or is 4wd a must?)

 

[A7_UFO]

I very nearly bought a 306 Rallye when they first came out....had to argue to get my deposit back because I bought the mk1.  I loved the 306 but it wasn't extreme enough at the time.  My personal feeling is that if you are an enthusiastic driver then a V6 won't fit the bill - nice and smooth but heavy and underpowered compared to a V8 and not spritely and revvy enough as a light 4 pot.  To me, it just seems middle of the road.  I know I'll get flamed for saying that but it is just my personal opinion.

 

[sk4tec]

I used to own a 306 XSi (135) and have driven a GTi 6 - they were great. I'm not tuning my Golf because the basic chassis is not very stiff - so it will be better with different suspension and tyres but It won't 'handle'. I accept this as a downside and enjoy the other aspects to owning a Golf.

 

[RJH]

What I really want is to stop, go round corners fast, and accelarate efficiently as possible,

What you need then Andy is one of these, it should have you grinning in all the aforementioned areas!! http://www.caterham.co.uk/ [][Y]

 

[craigGSI]

One thing i have noticed with my golf is that the stearing seems to "float" if you know what i mean

I fitted Eibach's to my GSI astra and it was night and day over standard yet i done the same with my golf and it is only the look that is different as it still feels sloppy

However i will stick up for the brakes on my golf as they are as sharp as a pin. I drove my dads astra mk4 SXI (my first astra before the GSI) the other day and almost shat my self when i was coming to a halt at the lights. I honestly thought i wasnt going to stop []

If you want a well sorted car for speed and handling i couldnt recomend then cooper-s with the John works conversion

 

[geoffone]

Have you thought about an RS4?

4 wheel drive, 380 bhp, 0-60 4.7 secs and a big boot to match...

Prices have fallen recently with the anouncement of the new RS4, so you can pick up a bargin.

 

[Geeba]

Think you bought the 4Mo for all the wrong reasons and to compaire it against the Pug is wrong... the 4Mo is more of a cruiser and to be honest no offence here in standard form is just a little bit pipe and slippers only IMO of course....