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Hi there,

Unfortunately we don't offer any custom mapping for 1.8T engines.
The only option we can offer you is a Stage 2 APR Remap at £358.80 all in.

You won't really a massive benefit by going custom unless you are looking to squeeze the absolute maximum power from your car, or running hardware mods above and beyond the normal for stage 2.

Hope this helps,
Regards, Al.
Awesome Ltd.
 

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Hmmm, I reckon there would be plenty of be had. Just seen a result from k03 200bhp and 273lbft torque today.

k03s pushes up to 264bhp if everything in check.

Custom mapping is better than anything else.

Personally, to assume one map developed on ONE car on ONE day will work on everything else is wrong IMHO, every car is different.
 

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'

To assume that APR develop their maps on one car in one day is a bit of an oversight. The level of R&D that goes into APR's mapping is simply unrivalled.

APR's maps are developed and calibrated over hundreds of hours dyno time taking many more things into consideration than one guy with a rolling road and a 4 to 5-hour budget could ever do!

From my point of view, and I would imagine a lot of people's, Mapping isn't all about getting the most possible power out of the car, It's also about making sure that everything is running safe and that there isn't any potential risk involved, alongside many other factors which are probably way past my level of education on the subject!

If you'd like more information let me know and I'll get one of the guys from APR head office to make a nice post with some amazing insight into what they do!

Hope this helps,
Regards, AL.
Awesome Ltd.
 

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Go for it!

When was their latest map revision developed? Whether one map with hundreds, or thousands of hours mapping time on it works perfectly on one engine, who's to say that hardware, conditions of the day, and every other of the many many factors are going to make the same power on every car that comes in for a APR map? Fuelling could be different, MAF sensors; genuine...non genuine, N75 condition; is it lazy?, actuator strength, turbo condition, the variation of many many different TIPs on the cars, intercooler piping, intercooler flow, exhaust flow.....yeah you get the idea.

In regards to R&D, have they mastered torque interventions? have they started mapping with WMI to aid power and cylinder temps, have they experimented with different boost plots, the different turbos as most k04 turbos make different levels of power... Is there mapping for relentless manifolds, which are now one of the best mods to do on a k04 1.8T?

^Above = my opinion and facts I see every day from tuned cars and peoples build threads.

The possibilities are endless.

What makes a APR map tailored for my car?
 

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[quote user="Chris."]

Go for it!

When was their latest map revision developed? Whether one map with hundreds, or thousands of hours mapping time on it works perfectly on one engine, who's to say that hardware, conditions of the day, and every other of the many many factors are going to make the same power on every car that comes in for a APR map? Fuelling could be different, MAF sensors; genuine...non genuine, N75 condition; is it lazy?, actuator strength, turbo condition, the variation of many many different TIPs on the cars, intercooler piping, intercooler flow, exhaust flow.....yeah you get the idea.

In regards to R&D, have they mastered torque interventions? have they started mapping with WMI to aid power and cylinder temps, have they experimented with different boost plots, the different turbos as most k04 turbos make different levels of power... Is there mapping for relentless manifolds, which are now one of the best mods to do on a k04 1.8T?

^Above = my opinion and facts I see every day from tuned cars and peoples build threads.

The possibilities are endless.

What makes a APR map tailored for my car?

[/quote]

An R-Tech supporter being vocal about custom mapping? I can't believe my eyes haha! Not that that's a bad thing. Nick and I have expressed mutual appreciation for each others' companies and work, and to be honest, Al's response was 100% correct; sometimes software solutions you consider "generic" are needed and sometimes "custom mapping" is needed. Unfortunately there are more unskilled custom mappers out there, and conversely there are only a few exceptionally skilled "generic" software companies out there. Do your homework, manage your modification goals and expectations, and you can't lose.

BUT, Chris has some concerns that I'd like to address for the community :) You'll notice I put "generic mapping" in quotes, because I don't consider our remaps generic at all. In fact, our calibrations are specific to each box code and software version, but the VAG community uses that term to describe products from companies like APR, so I will begrudgingly use it in this explanation for consistency. I also put "custom mapping" in quotes, because I've seen many custom maps that are far from it. I will be mentioning R-Tech quite a bit here, because they are Chris's preferred tuner and some of his performance expectations and questions deal specifically with their products/features.

First and foremost "When was their latest map revision developed?" To put things into perspective, when was the last time VW revised their software for the 1.8T? It's been quite a while as this engine was mostly phased out by the 2006-2007 model year as the company moved on to bigger engines (2.0T) with newer ECU technology (ME9/MED17). What this means is that despite the continued "developing"--as some would like to call it--the standard hardware and software on the 1.8Ts has remained the same for upwards of a decade in some instances. To answer your question though, our last software revision was on an LCR a few months back at AwesomeGTI with some impressive results.

Without any obvious reason to revisit or revise a calibration due to problems, lacking power, new calibration strategy, etc... there's not really much of a reason to have to continually revise code. I consider it working smarter and not harder :) Heck, as most custom mappers do, I'm sure even R-Tech has standard calibrations that customers can purchase if they wish! It saves time, money, and sometimes it's all a customer really needs.

This is how APR--and some others to a lesser degree--approach to remaps. We offer a calibrations from most standard bolt-ons (intake, exhaust, injectors, etc.) all the way up to completely built engines. We always offer software for the hardware we sell as a complete product. If a customer would deviate from our product range and they'd need a custom remap and rightfully so, though I can't see why anybody would ever want to considering the quality of the hardware and accompanying software we offer :)

"What makes a APR map tailored for my car?" We have copies of all of the binaries for all of the different box codes and all of their associated software versions. We developed our hardware and calibrations within a few years of the engine's release, found it safe, powerful, and reliable enough for our customers and the rest is history! Yes it took hundreds of calibration hours. This development time was carried out on various combinations of bolt-ons by multiple, in-house calibrators with extensive knowledge and resources. Suffice it to say, we have a decent idea what we're doing ;)

Two things make a car go, air and fuel. Your car is designed to measure how much air is entering it at any given time and what temperature that air is. Nothing more. Let's talk about the air side since this is where most bolt-on modifications are and seems to be where most custom mapping confusion lies. I consider standard bolt-ons to be induction systems, turbo inlet piping, intercoolers, diverter valves, and even turbos themselves to a lesser degree. The MAF (mass air flow) sensor and the IAT (intake air temperature) sensors model the volume and temperature of air passing through the system. They help the ECU tell the engine how to performa at any given time. If the car is calibrated properly, i.e. no protection/performance maps deleted or extreme calibration requests, the sensors will give accurate readings, measure the adjustments in volume and temperature and apply changes accordingly. These cars are smart! If the calibration is good, they will make smooth, reliable power, but in my experience a "custom map" wouldn't necessarily yield substantial gains over a "generic map" with standard bolt-ons.

Fuel used is the other half of this equation and has a large affect on the performance. With better octane fuel, the more timing can be requested up to a certain point throughout the powerband. So, if the car is mapped to expect X amount of air (depending on the conditions and modifications) and X type of fuel, the rest of the performance is up to the car and the quality of its components to perform as intended. Some people add larger injectors just to flow more fuel, but they don't consider the spray pattern, or the ability of the rest of their fueling components to handle the increased flow. Back to the APR model; we offer injectors, high pressure fuel pumps, low pressure fuel pumps, fuel pressure regulators, and even fuel pressure relief valves for applications where they are needed, and of course we have a calibration to suit.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING you mention, Chris: "...Fuelling could be different, MAF sensors; genuine...non genuine, N75 condition; is it lazy?, actuator strength, turbo condition..." All of these are possible. However, we don't waste our or our customers' time trying to calibrate around hardware components that are faulty, non-genuine, or near failing. If your MAF sensor or N75 are failing? Fix them. Turbo condition? If it's going to go it's going to go, no reason to map around it--forgive me for my lack of compassion :) If custom mappers offer services to do this, that's great, but it's not how APR does business.

"In regards to R&D, have they mastered torque interventions? have they started mapping with WMI to aid power and cylinder temps, have they experimented with different boost plots, the different turbos as most k04 turbos make different levels of power... Is there mapping for relentless manifolds, which are now one of the best mods to do on a k04 1.8T?"

-TiV mapping is an R-Tech thing, but even on a recent revision of our software for an LCR resulted in a very similar effect. It certainly does make for a pretty dynograph though.

-We typically don't map for WMI, because every WMI kit we've mapped for has been inconsistent, unreliable, and a potentially catastrophic failure point for any build. We don't prefer it, but of course we can, and have, depending on the application and/or our goals at the time.

-Yes we've experimented with different boost plots--calibrating 101. Yes we have experimented with different turbos, but we only carry a calibration for a K04 (non hybrid and non K03s) because we found that the best solution at the time. In fact, we went beyond K04 to GT2860RS with our Stage 3+ kit and have been pretty pleased with those results as well. Unfortunately, fitment issues keeps that off our UK catalogue, but some customers have worked with us to have the parts manufactured and are now running that kit.

-No mapping for relentless manifolds as they're new and the engine is old and we only map for our own hardware.

To summarise, some people will need custom mapping and that's fine. And some people won't and that's fine. Just don't insinuate we haven't done our homework or have any less knowledge about these engines than anybody else--it's actually quite the opposite.

If anybody has any questions, please don't hesitate to reach out to me directly at [email protected]

-Evan
 

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Average APR development times:

Stage 1 - 3-6 weeks continuous work for version 1

Stage 2 - 1-2 weeks continuous work for version 1

Stage 2+ - 2-3 weeks continuous work for version 1

KO4 - 3-6 weeks continuous work for version 1

Stage 3 - 3-6 months! continuous work for version 1

Stage 3+ - 1-3 months continuous work for version 1

Now, once all of that is done, new versions from Stage 1 all the way to Stage 3+ are created from everything learned by developing version 1 for Stage 1 through 3+.

Literally hundreds of hours go into each Stage by the time we are satisfied. Updates and new versions are pushed to our world wide installation application, DPP, and is made available instantly to everyone everywhere in the world.

Custom remaps are accomplished in 30 minutes to 3 hours. New strategies learned don't get pushed back to previous customers.

Also, somebody, I believe Chris, mentioned how you need a custom remap for all of these different scenario's like weather, condition of the n75 valve and turbo, etc. That seems correct, I agree, but following this logic, how far do we go? Every time I drive the car something will be different, no? Do I need a new custom map in winter time? What about when summer hits? What if I replace my worn out turbo with a new turbo? What if I find a failed diverter valve? Should I go back then too? I think this could go on forever. Heck, I might as well calibrate the car every day before I go to work. It only takes 30 minutes to an hour or 3 anyways. Just need to install that dyno in my garage at my house.
I know I'm being terribly cheeky and don't mean to wind anyone up but where does it really stop?

I know, from being in this biz for 12 years, that the ECU accommodates for all of these things custom mappers say must be done but for them to say that won't really help their sales, now will it?

Cheers!
 

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My two penneth on this subject. As a small tuning and VAG specialist
without the money and skills to provide my own remaps, I needed a system that
allowed me to offer a safe, reliable and predictable product that my customers
can trust and so I choose APR as they have a reputation second to none. BUT, I
think there is a need for and a market for both generic and custom mapping,
after all the manufacturer gives us generic maps in the first place and the ECU
can adapt to the individual small variations that are always present in
manufacturing. For a car like my wife's Polo GTI 1.8T a generic map is a
perfect "install and enjoy" way to make the car much more fun really easily
with a tried and tested result. Yes there may be a tiny amount more to squeeze
out but that was not what was required and I could have got more anyway by
using the 98RON map to take advantage of the fact she always uses Shell V Power
but I liked the thought of the safety margin. Currently I am building a 2
litre BAM engine for a Leon and that will have a hybrid blower and a few other
alterations that do not fit a commonly trodden path and so a custom map will be
required and that was Evan's own advice to me. Simply, if you have a standard
car and want a nice extra portion of power OR you are following a scheme
offered by a tuning company, a generic map is an absolutely ideal solution with
less work and it takes away all worry and guess work as the hard work has
already been done for you, possibly at the expense of a few horses but not definitely,
only maybe.
 
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