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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm thinking about where to take my car next, currently I have a 1.8t Agu engined MK4, I've swapped the KO3 for a KO3S, changed to a forge tip, AMD Diverter Valve, 4 Bar FPR, Jabbasport induction Kit and custom Jabba Remap. I swapped the suspension to Weitec Hicon TX Coilovers along with Eibach ARB's front and rear, with 312mm front brake conversion rolling on 18 x 8.5 Brock B2's.

On the Jabba rolling road It got 200bhp at the wheels, I'm not interested in turning it into a show car so smoothing and Anni/R32 bodykits are not high on my list.

I want to get more power and be able to put that power down. I live in the middle of nowhere which means I get lots of 'decent' twisty roads to drive on and having previously had an integrale I fancy a MK4 with that level of grip but with better reliability (anyone who's had an integrale will remember waiting for what will go wrong next and hoping it would be something that you could afford to get fixed).

Basically I'm looking into the possibility of building a MK4 1.8T with 300BHP+ and 4WD, I don't fancy a 4motion as the 1.8T is more tuneable for sensible money, and before anyone adds this I don't want a S3 (although I would say no to an RS4 Avant), it would be nice to have something original (to a degree)

Options are:-

I could buy a 4motion with a Fubar engine and swap in the engine/front running gear from an audi TT or audi A3 quattro (if the rear running gear of the V6 is at all compatible with the TT stuff).

Or they did actually sell a 1.8T Golf 4motion on the continent so it might be easier to convert one of these from LHD to RHD and then tune it, I know people have converted mk2 and Mk3's to RHD but has anyone even tried with a MK4? Any input on that one would be useful.

I have also seen on VWVortex that this has been done but it is not common as the v6 appears to only be FWD there. There is a firm that actually does the conversion called MPA and how they do it is to cut out the floor of the car and weld in the floor from a 4motion vehicle and then install all the running gear. (at a cost of $14K) I'm sure if they had access to 4WD bodyshells they would not bother going that route.

Also how will I control the 4motion system, I'm not sure how the ecu for that will work alongside the standard 1.8t one (are there separate control units on the 4motions?)

I want to plan how much this is likely to cost and whether the end benefit will be worth it. So any further info on the following would be handy.

Weight of a 1.8t golf.

Weight of a v6 4motion.

Weight of the V6 4 motion lump and ancillaries.

Weight of the 1.8t lump and ancillaries.

Lastly if anyone has any pictures of the floorpan of a standard 2wd MK4 golf and ones of a 4motion floorpan so that I can see the differences that would also be useful.

This may not end up happening but It doesn't cost anything to look into, I'm just exploring the avenues, I don't think it is worth doing anything with my current car as It will be cheaper to start with a couple of donor cars and a pile of bits. Mechanically I'm ok (not good enough to rebuild a gearbox or engine on my own) so I will rope in a mate who has large garage premises with 2 x four post ramps to help.

I did post this a thread on Edition 38 about this but it did not get off the ground so I thought I'd try a more model specific forum, hopefully this will be of interest to some of you on.
 

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Best bet is to start with a 4 motion and swap the engine to a 1.8t as I belive the floorplan is quite different , transmition tunnel and boot floor is different.
 

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Best bet is to start with a 4 motion and swap the engine to a 1.8t as I belive the floorplan is quite different , transmition tunnel and boot floor is different.
Agree with this comment , its a complete difrent lay out for running gear ,

ya would be better of with a 4mo and do the work to that ,

would cost ya a dam sight more trying to convert what ya have to a 4x4
 

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Have you actually driven a 4mo?  They are not as tuneable but not exactly slow in the first place.  Maybe even try an R32 before you decide. 
 

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The best way to do it is to buy a 4motion ... with or without Fubar engines (you cna get very good money for the v6 and wiring loom) and install the 1.8t engine in it..... All othere options involve cutting body shells and welding which is not really the best way to do it...

At least with the transplant route you can buy the donor vehicle, drive it for a month to make sure it all works as it should, then advertise the engine (you will get very good money if people hear it running first and the car has a FSH) and all the swap overe is pure mechanical nuts bolts and electrical plugs.

Bank on £5k for a basic 4motion and you could get upto £1k for the engine dependant on mileage/condition... this would be £4k for the 4motion coneversion which is quite cheap... Oh and thats without labour.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm going to try an R32 but I know I won't be able to afford one. I reckon though If ifs not too problematic that I could build something fairly unique for less than 8-10K.

Guessing at the following a dead 4mo should be no more than 3K, tt bam engine and running gear another 2.5, 1.5K for performance add ons and £2k for labour.

I only use the car at weekends as I've got a mk2 GTI as a daily (I have to park the car up on the roadside to get the train up to london and my previous station car a bmw318is was keyed in July and hit and runned in Sept so I don't take any risks with the Mk4). With that in mind it will not be a great issue if the car if I forced to use the MK2 as an only car whilst I'm rebuilding a MK4.

I need to do some serious looking into this as I will need to sell the MK4 to finance most of this and I don't want to get halfway thoough it to find I've run out of money and all I have is an unfinished pile of bits.

Anyone know about what parts form the Audi TT 225 running gear are shared with the 4wd system in the Golf 4mo.

>>>I spent too long typing this up so it did not take into account what the previous post advised......
 

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Anyone know about what parts form the Audi TT 225 running gear are shared with the 4wd system in the Golf 4mo.
All the tt 225 stuff is interchangeable... the rear suspension is the same as a 4motion though it has a smaller anti roll bar the front suspension is slightly different than the 4motion in that it has forged arms and a quicker rack, however this is the same as the r32... THE r32 basically has a tt 225 running gear with the addition of thicker anti roll bars and bigger brakes. The 4motion is identical to a TT however the 4motion has bigger anti roll than the TT (but smaller than the R) but the same brakes again.

However you could just buy my 4motion (with pagid pads, zimmerman discs, recently refurbished fk konig sports R32 arb's black leather recaros R32 trim r32 wheels(genuine) and the L 5OLF No plate) for £6.5k with plate and £6k without and either add a supercharger for £3.5k fitted or whip out the engine sell it for a grand and fit the TT bam engine.... and no suspesion or brake work would be nescacsry[:p]
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Andymac, Thanks for all of that info, that certanly helps, with regards to buying your V6, I'd need to oofload my golf first and I won't be doing tha until early next year if I decide to do this.

So the next question is how much loom chopping and ECu issues will I be looking at if I go the V6 4mo shell and tt Bam 225 engine running gear?
 

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Andymac, Thanks for all of that info, that certanly helps, with regards to buying your V6, I'd need to oofload my golf first and I won't be doing tha until early next year if I decide to do this.

So the next question is how much loom chopping and ECu issues will I be looking at if I go the V6 4mo shell and tt Bam 225 engine running gear?
Dent reform on here did it the other way round, he fitted a 4motion engine to a 1.6 and as I recall he said it was easy!! plug and play... maybe you need to get cars togethere and start ripping emm to bits to have a look. And or get a copy of elsawin
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm sure someone on here did an AGU engine to a BAM engine and there was a lot of wiring, I take it the extra BAM wiring was for the AWD issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm just thinking of something different thats all, the tuning potential of the 1.8t engine is as you know only limited by your finances.

I'd like an r32 but I know I wouldn't keep it for long if I could afford one as I like to modify too much. Every time I think I'm getting a bit old for this and think of buying a standard car I always end up tinkering with it in one way or another.

Used to have VR6 mk3 (I've had 2 actually) I do love the sound, maybe I've lost my soul?
 

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How about finding an imported mkiv 1.8 (not turbo) 4motion and fitting a turbo to it? I dont know how large the difference is between the 1.8 and the 1.8T though.

\Nils
 

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How about finding an imported mkiv 1.8 (not turbo) 4motion and fitting a turbo to it? I dont know how large the difference is between the 1.8 and the 1.8T though.

\Nils
unforutantely the 4motion was not sold in any other guise than v6 here... and I doubt anyone has imported a 1.8 4motion... as it would hve been left hand drive.. if he was to import one himself, he would have to convert it from left to right hand drive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I'd think I've have as much chance of finding an RHD one of those as I would of winning the lottery.

I'm looking into the weight side of things at the mo, don't really want to add 200kg and find that with drivetrain losses and compensating for the weight I might as well be in a 2wd 225bhp car.

I need to give a few 4mo cars a spirited drive to check out what I'll be getting (golf 4motion, s3, audi tt quattro 225, I doubt I'll get a go in an R32, unless I can convince my local dealer who always seem to have one that I am seriously considering buying it.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ok, having looked into the weight side of things it doesn't appear to be worth it unless you are running more towards 400bhp or have money to build it for the sake of it.

The weight of the average MK4 1.8T is 1240KG, mine has 225bhp, with approx 200 measured at the wheels (so 25bhp drivetrain loss), If I then work out the BHP per ton after drivetrain loss it is 200/1240 x 1000 = 161BHP per ton.

The weight of an Audi TT 225 quattro is 1380, the weight of an S3 is 1420, so taking the average weight as 1400, and guessing at a drivetrain loss of 50BHP on a 4WD system (although if anyone knows any more accurately I'll bow to their good knowledge).

On the basis of getting 325bhp out of a BAM engine with modified turbo system giving 325BHP then less 50BHP for drivetrain loss = 275BHP and 275/1400 x 1000 = 196BHP Per ton.

Which in my mind makes it a lot of work for little gain, I know numbers don't necessarily tell you how good fast a car is in real world conditions but on the basis of the above I won't bother looking at this any further and maybe just look at adding another 50 BHP to my FWD set up in the future.

Time now to start looking at the ins and outs of a Mk2 Golf 20V conversion, thats got to weigh in at just under a ton with a bit of weight saving and theres a car that handles in the bargain.
 

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Good luck with your plans - whichever direction you head in.

Be interesting to see how far you have got, no doubt if we chat again at next years WSCGTI bbq.

There was the green 20vt mkI at this years, maybe John knows/can put you in touch with any 20vt mkII owners?

Marc.
 
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