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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As most of you will know I have a CR Turbos Hybrid KO4-023 on my car.

I bought this abotu 6 months ago and have only in the last month got round to getting the car working for it to be mapped.

CR Turbos supplied this turbo to me as an equivalent to the MD421 (Stage 4 hybrid) that Turbo Dynamics have to offer.

Now it seems many people on SeatCupra have the same problem and I want to know where we all stand.

First of all - The turbo is prone to boost creep, which is now widely known and I believe CR Turbos will now port the wastegate as standard on all there new supplied turbos. Unfortunately, mine being an old one now needs to come off and be sent back - which obviously costs money to have it taken off.

Secondly - The turbo also suffers from Surge, especially when upgrading the exhaust manifold - this is however completely uncontrollable unless you only run 1.1 bar of boost which would make literally no power. The surge is down to having an unmatched compressor wheel to the exhaust wheel basically causing back pressure through the turbine wheel (dont fully understand this but this is the problem).

My arguement is CR Turbos have supplied a turbo un fit for purpose (At least in light of the boost creep they have, surge would have been unknown with modifications). It seems as if they just bashed the turbo out without doing any R&D themselves and now expect the customers to pay to have their problem put right.

Any help is appreciated.

Discuss...
 

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London Refurbs'
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Sorry i cant help you Dan but have they sorted this surging problem as standard now?

Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I dont believe they get surge problems on ko3 hybrids mate, the problem is with unmatched wheels on the hybrid ko4.

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry i cant help you Dan but have they sorted this surging problem as standard now?

Peter
Bill at Badger 5 was having a conversation with them about it yesterday.

To quote his post:

"

okies: a Brief update on the hybrid k04 following on from this threads very informative collation of data. (keep it coming fellow k04 hybrid user btw)

I met with CR for several hours yesterday, discussing both the k04 hybrid and also k03 .. It was a very good dialogue and many scenarios and specs were discussed.. I thank CR for their time on this.. I know the several hours we were talking the phones were going mad and their calls were diverted to their colleagues. Thanks guys

K04 wise, there is tabled now a Step2 K04 hybrid, which has different spec compressor wheel, and modified turbine, housing machined out etc... Now, specs wont be made available as to its exact build, as its confidential. (and its not yet proven btw, in case we count our chickens ...)

All of this spec change is done to move the surge line out of the way hopefully.

Also discussed were the differences in wellys and roberts, and why one suffers far worse than the other... Inlet volumes being very different we believe was a significant contributor to the initial spool (fill + compress) time, just to move the operating rpms up a smidge, and the steep nature of the surge line allowing it more headroom on boost before surge is met.. It seems very plausable to be the major difference, more so than largeport vs smallport etc..

Now its agreed that although wellys is ok, roberts is not, and roberts is the more "normal" installation, being smallport, normal head configuration for the car etc etc, so if the Step2 K04 proposed cures the surge on his setup mix of parts, its likely worst case scenario, and should work on others thereafter. Interestingly, I would wager others running large FMIC setups etc, would not like suffer as much as those with smaller ones... so those building theirs up, fit a big one..


So... where we are now is robert has the option to have his original k04 built to the new Step2 build spec and try it out. I thank Robert for being test guinee pig, as his surge issue has been more prevalent than anyone else thus far, because of the hi-flow other parts on his build. (ex mani, 3inch tip etc), and its this combination of parts, with the previous spec hybrid which showed it surged, but also made the most power any k04 hybrid has achieved to my knowledge.

Thats all for now, until CR have received, rebuilt into new Step2 revision, and roberts back to Joe for tuning it and verifying how it went. fingers crossed.

K03 wise.. I have left a turbo with them to make into a very high spec k03, which will be tested on MrsB Lupo after I have tested Dougs Frankenturbo on it. I aim for it to be a real 300bhp k03 hybrid however.

watch this space
thanks "Hope you don't mind me quoting Bill!Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
As it seems like they havent got a bloody clue what they are doing with there turbos I ideally want my money back and for them to pay for both, the labour costs to put the turbo on the engine and then again to remove it. And for a unit that requires reconditioning to also be sent back to me so I can go elsewhere.

Dan
 

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Chief Troll
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Dan... i have to say, I wouldn't touch ANY hybrid turbo with a barge pole... ive heard way to many stories of failures etc etc! Just buy a proper BT that it designed to run the boost you require.

I know that doesnt help you much now tho! Best thing to do is ring them... and speak to the about the issues and see what they say!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Dan... i have to say, I wouldn't touch ANY hybrid turbo with a barge pole... ive heard way to many stories of failures etc etc! Just buy a proper BT that it designed to run the boost you require.

I know that doesnt help you much now tho! Best thing to do is ring them... and speak to the about the issues and see what they say!
Oh I will if this problem gets rectified.

As it stands im £715 down on a turbo thats not fully useable and then probably another £400-500 down on supporting mods to get the best out of it if isn't sorted!

Dan
 

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As it seems like they havent got a bloody clue what they are doing with there turbos I ideally want my money back and for them to pay for both, the labour costs to put the turbo on the engine and then again to remove it. And for a unit that requires reconditioning to also be sent back to me so I can go elsewhere.

Dan
Who did you get to put the turbo on for you Dan? What have they charged you in labour so far?

Jon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
As it seems like they havent got a bloody clue what they are doing with there turbos I ideally want my money back and for them to pay for both, the labour costs to put the turbo on the engine and then again to remove it. And for a unit that requires reconditioning to also be sent back to me so I can go elsewhere.

Dan
Who did you get to put the turbo on for you Dan? What have they charged you in labour so far?

Jon.
Fortunately Jon, it was myself who fitted the turbo when the engine was put in the car. So I understand I will unlikely get any compensation for wasteing my own time, but I'll be damned if im taking it off myself while its on the car again - fed up of working on the stupid thing and access to it while the engine is in the car is well...limited.

Dan
 

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Understandable wanting to get someone else involved to take it off (especially if you can get the cost paid for) but it's a bit cheeky trying to get costs back of them if it didn't originally cost you anything.

Can understand why you'd try it - you seem pretty cross about it and probably want to stick it to them, but If they get the feeling you're not playing straight with them or are trying to get one over on them, then they'll be even less likely to listen to your case with a sympathetic ear.

Jon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Understandable wanting to get someone else involved to take it off (especially if you can get the cost paid for) but it's a bit cheeky trying to get costs back of them if it didn't originally cost you anything.

Can understand why you'd try it - you seem pretty cross about it and probably want to stick it to them, but If they get the feeling you're not playing straight with them or are trying to get one over on them, then they'll be even less likely to listen to your case with a sympathetic ear.

Jon.
Yeah I understand this, seems rather unfair though. I will play ball, I have sent them an email with all the problems of which they are already aware of. I guess its just wait for an answer and if nothing comes from it I will speak with CAB.
 

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I would just take it off and send it back to them so they can 'fix' it! PITA.. but at least you should end up with a product that will work!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I can understand the comment about surge and it being a part of all my uprated modifications but that makes no difference to the creep. That is there no matter what set up you use.

And to remove the turbo its head off, new head gasket and bolts. It can be avoided but it goes from 2 hours labour to 6.

Dan
 

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I hate to say it, but the effort you are going to spend in arguing this case with them (emails back and forth...playing on your mind) you may aswell DIY mate.

It sucks, and I feel for you...but just be thankful that you are capible of doing the work yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I hate to say it, but the effort you are going to spend in arguing this case with them (emails back and forth...playing on your mind) you may aswell DIY mate.

It sucks, and I feel for you...but just be thankful that you are capible of doing the work yourself.
It sucks that I know you are right lol.
 
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