[AdeMcG]

Well, I have sorted out the handling (Neuspeed 28mm rear ARB & Anniversary Suspension, dampers & springs) made the bugger stop (4 Motion brakes all round) and made it a little easier on the eye (Anniversary kit & tints).

Now I am looking for a bit more performance out of my GT TDI 130, but I am a bit at a loss as to where to start with this, [:^)]so comments, advice would be most appreciated.

As I see it there are several routes and all have different costs / benefits.

1. Green Panel Filter: Relatively inexpensive, any real performance benefit ?
2. Induction kit: Too noisey ?
3. Reduce Parastatic drag (heard this from a friend, he is very technical) but the upshot is, reduce pulley weights etc,,... to reduce the amount of energy required to keep them spinning and free that energy to boost BHP,...options available, Costs?
4. Re-map: The most expensive option that comes to mind, lots of companies to choose from (too many to be honest) real performance increases (upto 167 BHP from JAbba), increase stress on Clutch & Engine?
5. Intercooler: I have heard that the 150 TDI has a bigger intercooler than the 130 TDI, could a swap provide more horses?
6. Turbo replacement: does the 150 TDI have a bigger turbo? Can it bolt straight on to the GT TDI 130 ? Would the ECU need upgrading ?
7. Exhaust change, Cat back, Cat Replacement, Miltek too noisy on motorway ?? Expensive, how much gain ??

Sorry for the amount of questions guys, but I feel I should research this before throwing serious wedge at it.

Cheers

Ade

 

[DNA]

The 130 and 150 have a different turbo, the 130 unit is part of the manifold, the 150 unit isn't, so not a straight swap!

 

[Mike-P]

A remap is the best result for the money, all the others give less bhp/torque per ?, making the engine breathe better (induction/exhaust) is a good idea but won't give anything like the results (turbo back exhaust rather than cat back), a front mounted intercooler will improve things but not as much as better breathing, once you get into new turbos and parasitic drag (must admit never heard of it as a suggestion before), you're into diminishing returns unless you want to spend a fortune. Some people do!

 

[AdeMcG]

Cheers guys, great info, so thus far:

1. Turbo swap is out, lot of work and expense for not a lot of return, but an intercooler upgrade (Forge perhaps ???) could be beneficial.
2. Better breathing is always a good thing, so a Green Cotton Panel filter will help and is cheap. Exhaust I am a little sceptical about to be honest, heard lots of good and bad things about Miltek and the like, I couldn't live with a boomy and noisy exhaust, I aint 19 anymore ![]
3. RE-map (as I thought) gives most bang for buck, but does it sacrafice reliability ? And who to go to, Supachips, JAbba,...APR , the list is huge.
4. Parastatic drag: I agree is going into the area of "lets change everything", which is a bit beyond my budget, well,.... way beyond actually. But I had heard of some interesting figures quoted, changing a couple of pulleys gave +10 to15 BHP.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for increasing performance, but not at the risk of reducing reliability and too much of the MPG (I do like the 50+ I get now).

Keep the ideas coming though, I can see lots of spending options, the wife is going to kill me !!

Ade

 

[Big Pimp]

mate, i got my tdi130 remapped by a company over here in northern ireland OBD auto tune and they use german software...

mine is running 170bhp + at the minute, and i'm still enjoying the 45 - 50mpg and also it's really quick and progressive - no nasty spikes and peaks comparable with tuning boxes. it's running a healthy 22PSi spiking at 24-26 (previously ran 18psi spikes as 20 - 22) and no excessive black smoke etc.

if you get a reputable company to do it for you, and speak to others and have a run in their car if you can. most people go to one of the main ones and then swear by them, as most will be similar with some slight changes...

good luck, and happy motoring mate!

 

[Milkfloat]

The biggest bang per buck is clearly from a remap.  Reliability is very good, and fuel economy will not get worse if you don't drive like a loon all the time.  an intercooler will not give you more bhp, it will just stop you losing it so quickly on a hot day.  A lightweight pully / fly wheel will also work but bang per buck is all on the remap.

 

[AdeMcG]

Cheers guys, infor much apreciated,...now here's a question, custom remap or generic ?

The cost difference is quite large (Jabba etc,,) does it warrant the extra pennies ? Or is a generic code just as good ?

Ade

 

[DNA]

A very good generic remap is better than a badly written custom remap, a good custom remap is better than a bad generic remap.

hope that helps!

 

[AdeMcG]

A very good generic remap is better than a badly written custom remap, a good custom remap is better than a bad generic remap.

hope that helps!

Thanks for the Reply DNA:

Any examples of good Generic remaps (Revo, Jabba, APR, Supachips?) these seem to be popluar, what ones should I avoid ? I think the custom stuff is a little expensive too, so might be better sticking with a reputable generic map.

I think so far I am going to get the Green Panel filter (seems to be popular and inexpensive) and I will increase the research into the remap option, it is bewildering the choice of compaines and formats, e.g. switchable and non switchable for example,.....information overload !![:|]

If I get a remap, will I have to get a boost gauge to see what the Psi is doing, or just have it how ever it is set up and don't bother ?

I have already had a replacement turbo (under Warranty) and don't want to hurt the reliability, anyone had troubles with slipping clutches following remaps ? Having to replace the clutch is something I could do with out too.

What should I realistically expect (increase in Horses) ? 167 BHP (from the 130) seems to be bounded about for a Jabba map, have heard of inaccurate rolling road figures for this company too though.

I seem to of gone off my initial topic a bit though, I was originally looking for mods that were cheaper that a remap ( hence the snappy title) [] and that gave real performace benefits,.ah well[] it might be that you can't really beat the remap, for the cash it is looking like the most sensible option.

 

[DNA]

Any examples of good Generic remaps (Revo, Jabba, APR, Supachips?) these seem to be popluar, what ones should I avoid ? I think the custom stuff is a little expensive too, so might be better sticking with a reputable generic map.

I hope you understand I really can't comment on other peoples remaps in my position!

I think so far I am going to get the Green Panel filter (seems to be popular and inexpensive) and I will increase the research into the remap option, it is bewildering the choice of compaines and formats, e.g. switchable and non switchable for example,.....information overload !!

I personally think that changing the filter is money that could be better spent elsewhere, to be honest the standard filter and airbox flows very well, you're better off just making sure you replace your standard one regularly.

Switchable, non switchable? Will you really use it? Do you need it? why would you want to use it? Questions only you can answer!

If I get a remap, will I have to get a boost gauge to see what the Psi is doing, or just have it how ever it is set up and don't bother ?

I'd suggest leaving it to those who do the job day in day out, there's so many factors you cannot control that people don't think of initially

I have already had a replacement turbo (under Warranty) and don't want to hurt the reliability, anyone had troubles with slipping clutches following remaps ? Having to replace the clutch is something I could do with out too.

That depends with different companies, all I can say is Abt have to cover the manufacturers warranty and work closely with VAG, reliability is a big consideration with Abt

What should I realistically expect (increase in Horses) ? 167 BHP (from the 130) seems to be bounded about for a Jabba map, have heard of inaccurate rolling road figures for this company too though.

I can't really comment on other companies, but you should be looking at the torque figures also, especially if you're worried about clutch problems, I'd perhaps compare figures from rolling road days where a variety of different maps were compared on the same day on the same rollers. Different companies market differently in different countries and have different rules applied to them I'm sure.

I seem to of gone off my initial topic a bit though, I was originally looking for mods that were cheaper that a remap ( hence the snappy title)

and that gave real performace benefits,.ah well

it might be that you can't really beat the remap, for the cash it is looking like the most sensible option.

I agree, the remap is the most cost effective performance upgrade and also one of the easiest to apply.

 

[AdeMcG]

Ah,...I didn't know you were in that game,..thanks for the pointers though, I have had a quick look through the rolling road stuff on here and it is difficult to compare products.

Jabba for instance seem to quote the maximum figure (at the flywheel) but as we all know this is no where near what is put down on tarmac. I have a mate who has had the Jabba and is very pleased with it, he claimed that it was a relatively mild map and still pushed out 190 BHP, from his 130 TDI Bora,...when I looked at the power curves, it was reading the 165 Bhp (as has been reasonably claimed on here in the past) but the guy had obviously banged on and on about the flywheel figure, once driven I was in no doubt that there was an increase in power, but somehow I was expecting a little more.

Yeah as you say, the Torque figure is also critical, don't want to over stress the clutch, gearbox and other stuff.

SO, generally companies that cover the work with a good waranty should be my first port of call (although my VW warranty ended last year) ? I guess this would add to the cost of the remap quite considerably ?

 

[DNA]

I can't really comment on pricing, but as the old saying goes sometimes 'you get what you pay for' but that isn't always true, is that a vague enough reply? []

 

[AdeMcG]

*LAUGH* yup its very vague !!

 

[DNA]

What else do you expect me to say!

 

[JBS-Sales]

Hi

We can offer Custom-Code www.custom-code.co.uk

This has proved to be VERY good with the PD engines.

On your you could look at an icrease to 170bhp.The torque is fantastic on these PD codes.

We have done a Fabia vRS with this code , the same engine as yours.

This had a fantastic torque curve.

If the torque curve is good with no dips you will not have a problem with the clutch.

As for the filter , for the price you would pay for one , why not.

It helps breathing and lasts a long time so why not?

Have fun with your search.

Sarah

Oh and it is switchabel with a lap top.

 

[DNA]

The standard air filter and airbox flows to well in excess of what is used by this unit, I used to run a PD130 MK4 Golf with a hybrid turbo running 230bhp and 330lb/ft, it was featured in Volkswagen Driver a couple of years ago, that ran a standard air filter and box, breathing was never an issue.

We don't sell air filter's so I've nothing to gain from giving my view on this, when I worked at AmD we had the same opinion there too.

My concern with some but not all aftermarket filters is the particulate size that they will filter out, some are not as good as the standard item so they might breath a little better but they can let minute particulates through that is for sure not desireable.

The issue with Torque is mainly how much there is in relationship to the point where the clamping force on the clutch pressure plate and the friction between itself and the flywheel becomes the issue. I've only heard of a few problems from my experience on remapped PD engines clutches and that was a variety of codes, the main problem to be honest was the end users aggressive use, as with anything if you abuse it hard enough you will break it!

 

[AdeMcG]

I tend to agree with the air box comment,...in its standard form I think it is designed sufficiently well as not to worry about it.

Having done a fair bit more reading since my initial post, I can say that I am slighty more worried now than when I started the topic, many, many posts regarding "clutch slipping" following remapping, and those were for several different products (Jabba, Revo to name but two), all on the Pd range of engines.

The replacement of the pressure plate seems to solve the majority of these, with a clutch upgrade being popular too, obviously this adds to the cost of the modification, looking at a good ?500 for code then couple of hundred for an uprated clutch,...starts to look very expensive, even if you stick with generic code.

As for quote: "I've only heard of a few problems from my experience on remapped PD engines clutches and that was a variety of codes, the main problem to be honest was the end users aggressive use, as with anything if you abuse it hard enough you will break it! "

People who get the remap mod done are not looking to pootle round and suddenly become a Honda owner, I think it is down to the detail and refinement of the code / remap to avoid such torque spikes, which are probably the cause of these clutch problems in the first place.

Thoughts ?

Out of interest DNA what is the price these days of the ABT generic and custom code ?

 

[DNA]

I tend to agree with the air box comment,...in its standard form I think it is designed sufficiently well as not to worry about it.

The standard air box is used by many companies who upgrade far beyond just a remap so the consensus from the larger tuning houses would agree. And to be honest if a standard air filter is seen as clogging up quicker than an aftermarket one then I would be asking the question where is all the dirt going that the standard one is collecting when using an aftermarket one? I'd just change the standard one more often surely!

Having done a fair bit more reading since my initial post, I can say that I am slighty more worried now than when I started the topic, many, many posts regarding "clutch slipping" following remapping, and those were for several different products (Jabba, Revo to name but two), all on the Pd range of engines.

The replacement of the pressure plate seems to solve the majority of these, with a clutch upgrade being popular too, obviously this adds to the cost of the modification, looking at a good ?500 for code then couple of hundred for an up rated clutch,...starts to look very expensive, even if you stick with generic code.

As for quote: "I've only heard of a few problems from my experience on remapped PD engines clutches and that was a variety of codes, the main problem to be honest was the end users aggressive use, as with anything if you abuse it hard enough you will break it! "

People who get the remap mod done are not looking to pootle round and suddenly become a Honda owner, I think it is down to the detail and refinement of the code / remap to avoid such torque spikes, which are probably the cause of these clutch problems in the first place.

Thoughts ?

The thing is it's all down to the market of a product as well, different tuning brands attract different end users and the fact you only ever hear of the few clutches that do fail is also a consideration. With all my experience working with various companies it can be the harshness of the torque spiking but more frequently it is how the car is used. Nothing is unbreakable; if you try hard enough you will break it!

Out of interest DNA what is the price these days of the ABT generic and custom code ?

Abt supply what you would class as generic, what everyone fails to consider is the fact that you cannot write a perfect map in a day, Abt spend up to two weeks perfecting every piece of code. I don't want to get into the whole argument about custom and generic mapping on a standard car but I will add that the whole custom remap myth came from the days before Robert Bosch GmbH brought out the latest engine management systems used by Volkswagen which have the ability to customise themselves within certain perimeters. This type of system was developed so a car would perform consistently in hot and cold weather and whether the engine has done 10 miles or 100,000 miles. If this were not the case then surely a car would need remapping every 10,000 miles to allow for wear and then it would need a summer/winter or even a cold morning/hot evening remapping session!

Now obviously you will need a different remap when certain components are changed that move available perimeters outside the windows of the original mapping, the likes of an exhaust though would be easily allowed for by the metering systems that monitor air mass and mixture levels.

It's all down the vast array of sensors your car is now equipped with, and doing a full remap bearing in mind all these many perimeters to get not just good performance but also reliability and smoothness of delivery is no small job in itself, as you can't change one table and not have to change many other perimeters elsewhere sympathetically. I hope that makes sense.

Oh and the Abt remap for the VW Golf MKIV PD130 is ?817+VAT