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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, I'm new to this forum and wanted to ask your advice.

My other half has a humble 1.4 DOHC on a 'W' reg @ 47,000 miles and VW have advised that the cambelt should be changed (as well the normal 10,000 mile service). I've decided to do this myself as I dont fancy paying VW ?600 to do just the cambelt(s). I also need to renew the cam carrier sealant as there is a very slight oil leak, renew the brake fluid, filters etc - cost me ?400 just in parts!

I've got all the nessecary bits (I think) for the cambelt change: 2 cam belts, 2 tensioners, 2 idler pulleys, water pump (I might as well change this at the same time), new crankshaft bolt, fan belt, G12+. I know that the engine mounting needs removing to access the belts, but do I need to change the bolts on the engine mount too. I've been reading another thread that stated all bolts should be replaced (stretch bolts), yet the Haynes manual I'm using on states that I only need to renew the crankshaft bolt. Can anyone confirm this for me?

Thanks in advance

Phil
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I thought it was expensive too - but the price of the cambelt kit is about ?185 (including water pump) and I would have thought about 3 hrs @ ?100 per hour.  Unless they only change the cambelts and not the tensioners or pulleys?  Maybe they only change the main belt and not the secondary belt - surely not?  But then again, I'm used to mucking about with 25+ year old mk2 Escorts - and I'm learning lots of new things about these new fangled modern cars..!
 

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I think you'll find that a cambelt kit is about ?75 and a water pump around ?25.  You should be able to get the job done for about ?300 - ?400 I think, including parts.
 

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Not sure if it's unique to the 1.4 but are you sure you need 2 cambelts and 2 tensioners ? I would have thought it would have 1
 

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Phil,   I,m not sure about the 1.4 but on the PD turbodiesels VW recommend that you replace the engine mounting bolts as they are stretch bolts which you torque up and then turn another 90 degrees.   If you search the forum you will find a few threads from owners who have actually had the engine fall out when these bolts subsequently failed.   Can not remember the exact cost but they were not expensive compared to the cost of all the other bits and pieces that you need.  
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks rxs_tdi, thats what I needed to confirm. Just so I'm clear, you tighten them to the specified torque setting, then give them another 90 degrees a few seconds later..?

Because its the 1.4 engine it has 2 cambelts, and therefore 2 tensioners. The primary belt runs of the crankshaft, water pump and the inlet cam. Then a smaller belt runs from behind the inlet cam which in turn runs the exhaust cam - never seen that setup before.

Here's the email I just got back from the dealer:

"Here?s the prices for you. Unfortunately we would need to change both belt and tensioners.<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:p></O:p></DEFANGHTML_SPAN>

<DEFANGHTML_SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:p> </O:p>Both <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = DEFANGHTML_ST1 /><DEFANGHTML_ST1:pLACE w:st="on">Cam</DEFANGHTML_ST1:pLACE> belts, tensioners and water pump - ?544.22<O:p></O:p></DEFANGHTML_SPAN>

<DEFANGHTML_SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:p> </O:p>Oil change service - ?103.31<O:p></O:p></DEFANGHTML_SPAN>

<DEFANGHTML_SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:p> </O:p>Inspection service - ?206.71<O:p></O:p></DEFANGHTML_SPAN>

<DEFANGHTML_SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:p> </O:p>20k service - ?260.76"

Total = ?1113!!!!!

The mileage is only at 48,000, but I might as well do the 20,000 service while I'm doing the rest.

My next question is regarding the water pump - it came with just a black sealing ring inserted into a grooved ring in the pump. I'm used to cleaning both mating sides then fitting a gasket with sealant (eg Hylomar), but with this it seems as though it seals itself under pressure? Does anyone know if I should still apply some sealer to the mating surfaces of the pump and block?

Thanks for the help so far
 

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?1113 is a lot!! Try a specialist.

On the water pump front, the sealing ring (or O ring) is correct, if you DIY the belt change, then use a bit of grease on the seal when fitting the pump. This will allow the seal to slide into place, as oppposed to rip.

SB
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thansk SB, but isn't there a corresponding ring cutout on the block surface also to allow both mating surfaces of the pump and block to fit tightly together?

Just seems odd that there is a chance it could rip when fitting it, though it would be a simple put in place and bolt down job. Thanks for the tip though mate - much appreciated.

Phil
 

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The Oring and pump fits inside an Orifice in the block, the o ring is a tight fit on the inner wall. As you bolt the pump to the block, and begin to push the o ring into its correct place, it could have a chunk ripped out by the block, due to stiction, the grease allows the Oring to slide into place as you bolt it down.

SB
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks SB, i'll be sure to add some grease.

Basset - tell me about it. I hate paying the robbing b*st*rds, but it's my other halfs car and we wanted to maintain its value if we sold it by having it serviced by the VW dealer, but we're due to get a new car soon so i'll be having the Golf. I'm not bothered about having it serviced by them, i'll do a better job myself and I know its all been done properly.
 

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The 1.4 16v does indeed have two cambelts. One to link the top two cam sprockets and thanother larger one for the rest of the stuff.

One thing I will stress tho if you are changeing any of the belts yourself YOU MUST get the camsprocket locking tool which hold the cams solid when removing and refitting the belts. It fits though the cams and locates into the head.

A friend attempted to change his own belt, though he got it right and then ended up belding all the inlet valves. He was only out by a couple of teeth on the belt.

You can get the tool from VW. I can post a pic of it with the special tool number if you like.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I did ask the parts dept at VW about this and they just said they weren't allowed to sell tools. I was hoping I could lock the cams using two bolts through the cams themselves and then into the head...I'm assuming there are threaded bolt holes in the head?

Went to Allparts and they want ?50 for the tool. Just seemed like another tool that tries to get you back to the dealer for them to do it. Am I wrong in assuming I can use M6/M8 bolts, or is the tool essential. I had noticed on the tool that the diameter decreased about halfway down each stud/pin, indicating that the holes in the cam sprockets and head are of different size, but was confident I could make something myself to achieve the same effect.

Perhaps I'll just get the tool...would you be so kind to post a picture of it with the part number please mate. Any idea how much it costs from VW, and whether I can get it over the parts counter?

thanks again
 

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Trust me, you should use the tool.

I'm at work at the mo so I'll post a pic later for you. I can get VW tools for you if you get stuck.

Alternatively you can borrow mine if you promise to post it back!

Let me know.
 

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Phil,   I,ve checked in my Haynes manual and that is what it states for the 2 larger bolts (but apparently not for the 2 smaller ones).   It is easy to miss this in the torque settings because it is indicated with a little asterisk - probably worth investing ?20 in the Haynes manual if you have not already got one.     Have to admit I,m not sure of the answer to your question about the water pump seal but you do not normally need sealant with O ring seals - hopefully someone else can give a definitive answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks rxs_tdi, I went back and had a read through my haynes manual (I kind of skipped over the removal of the engine mount section as I didn't consider they'd need to be removed - thats what happens when you work with older cars most of the time!) and did indeed find that they have to be replaced. I know what you mean about the small asterisks on the torque settings page...very hard to notice first time round. Thanks for looking for me, much appreciated mate.

HTC - thanks for the offer of the loan on the tool, I might take you up on that if its ok with you. Can I let you know in a couple of weeks time - i'm off to Cyprus on Wed so wont be back for a week. I had planned to do the car tomorrow but the weather looks like its not going to happen, so i'll have to wait till I get back.

Thanks again for your help guys, get better advice on here than you do at the dealers.

Cheers, Phil
 

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No probs. Just let me know when you are ready.

rsx_tdi is correct. You do not need any sealant for the water pump.

BTW, heres a pic of the tool.

Posted Image


There are approx ?36 inc vat from VW
 
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