Audi S3 v V64motion v R32... preference?
Mk4 Golf
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Really depends on your spending power. You will pick up a 4motion on an X-plate for peanuts... they are such good value for money now. probably ?8-9K for a good one with lowish mileage and decent spec.
Personally I think the S3, oldest design mentioned is far overpriced for what it is (Around ?13-15K for X plater on reasonable miles)... I would certainly look at the leon cupra R instead (Around the same amount for a 210bhp 02 plate, possibly 225bhp 53 plate. Both have similar power outputs, with similar engines, just that certainly the later leon is a lot quicker with it being 2wd. (no power lost to the haldex system like s3)
R32 is still much higher priced , your looking at at least 19K for a good low miler. Similar car to drive as 4motion, a little quicker, a lot better suspension (But boneshakey) and an exhaust that is beautiful everywhere bar cruising speed of 60-70 mph. Terrible boomy drone.
They are all good cars, but 4mo is your best value... and know i'm not saying that cos I got one!!
][:I]
Personally I think the S3, oldest design mentioned is far overpriced for what it is (Around ?13-15K for X plater on reasonable miles)... I would certainly look at the leon cupra R instead (Around the same amount for a 210bhp 02 plate, possibly 225bhp 53 plate. Both have similar power outputs, with similar engines, just that certainly the later leon is a lot quicker with it being 2wd. (no power lost to the haldex system like s3)
R32 is still much higher priced , your looking at at least 19K for a good low miler. Similar car to drive as 4motion, a little quicker, a lot better suspension (But boneshakey) and an exhaust that is beautiful everywhere bar cruising speed of 60-70 mph. Terrible boomy drone.
They are all good cars, but 4mo is your best value... and know i'm not saying that cos I got one!!![
][:I]S3 - Lovely car, but overpriced considering it's age. Is superbly built tho... quick, but a bit uninvolving i found.
4mo - Doesn't feel as planted or convincing as the S3.. but sounds lovely.
R32 - Best of the bunch by far... but also the dearest (for good reason). Superb all round package, really unrivaled for the money in a standard hatch. Looks, sound, chassis, engine, build... top drawer.
Ditto about the Cupra R.... probably as quick as the R32 in a straight line, very involving drive, stunning to look at, and the best brakes out of all the above my a country mile. Bit of a bargain really!
4mo - Doesn't feel as planted or convincing as the S3.. but sounds lovely.
R32 - Best of the bunch by far... but also the dearest (for good reason). Superb all round package, really unrivaled for the money in a standard hatch. Looks, sound, chassis, engine, build... top drawer.
Ditto about the Cupra R.... probably as quick as the R32 in a straight line, very involving drive, stunning to look at, and the best brakes out of all the above my a country mile. Bit of a bargain really!
There's an awful lot of hearsay and rumour about 4WD losses with the Haldex... Need to remember that it's not a centre diff like the A4 (and upwards) Torsen quattros, so the rear wheels can be totally disconnected to reduce power loss.
Does anybody have any real figures of Haldex power loss, because having gone from a 150bhp FWD 1.8T, straight to a 180bhp quattro 1.8T, I can honestly say it's one helluvalot faster!
Anyone got any figures?
/off_topic []
R32 if you can afford (a) the purchase price, and (b) the fuel []
S3 if not []
Does anybody have any real figures of Haldex power loss, because having gone from a 150bhp FWD 1.8T, straight to a 180bhp quattro 1.8T, I can honestly say it's one helluvalot faster!
Anyone got any figures?
/off_topic [
]R32 if you can afford (a) the purchase price, and (b) the fuel [
]S3 if not [
]Like others have said... price of a R32 is gonna be ?20k ish for a nice example. If he does have that sort of money then i would go for an S3, pick one up for around 14-16k and spend about 2-3k on mods like wheels, chip, exhaust and brakes.... 280 bhp and 4wd and very nice looking, yes please!
Plus you get a lot of kit on and S3 just as you do on the R. S3 has the nicest cabin imho too....
Plus you get a lot of kit on and S3 just as you do on the R. S3 has the nicest cabin imho too....
Joined
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1,303 Posts
Not driven an R32 so can't reall comment. Stunning looking and sounding though.
Mate has an S3, better build quality than the Golf IMO. But wouldn't swap as I think i'd miss the V6. Then again, as Tim Sims said, you've got the tuneability with the S3.
S3 has good handling from standard whereas my 4Mo had a lot of body roll until I got the R32 arbs on there.
Mate has an S3, better build quality than the Golf IMO. But wouldn't swap as I think i'd miss the V6. Then again, as Tim Sims said, you've got the tuneability with the S3.
S3 has good handling from standard whereas my 4Mo had a lot of body roll until I got the R32 arbs on there.
Although a little biased the s3 was quoted by "evo" magazine as the best handling car audi produce 2 years ago.I believe the r32 is over-priced and as a future collectors car worth a buy.A chipped s3 is a seriously torquey fast car with a wonderful interior and lots of stuff.It is still fairly expensive but you get what you pay for.I think the 4 motion will be a let down and you will be selling the car on before long.So if you've got 20k go for a r32(solid residuals)if not go for a s3.
Dunno where you'll find a 4Mo for 8-9k - unless you fancy one with a zillion miles on the clock, dents in the body panels and a very short options list. A search on Autotrader turns up only a few under 9k, and they're all showing mileages around the 75k-100k+ mark. Go a little higher - 10-11k, and you'll pick one up that's in good nick, with less than 40k on the clock. Make sure you get the leather interior (Recaros if possible) and ensure it's got climate and not manual aircon (only imports had aircon, UK-spec cars had climate). Bought mine last January and haven't looked back since.
S3's are terribly overpriced. You will not find one under 10k that hasn't been stolen, crashed or written off. A mate of mine just picked up a V-plate one for 12k with 65k on the clock - it's in mint condition however, and looks and drives fantastically.
Bear in mind too that the S3 uses the very tuneable VAG 1.8T engine which can be taken to 300bhp, and over, fairly economically - you can only take the V6 to about 250bhp before you have to look into seriously expensive twin-turbo or supercharger kits (but then, you're into the stratosphere performance wise - someone posted videos on here of a supercharged German V6 which'd push 200mph).
We've had a few mini 'races' in my V6 and his S3 (his is the earlier 210bhp model) and there's nothing in it - at all. The V6 gets it's neck ahead off the mark, but the turbo kicks in on the S3 and it's level pegging. As standard, the S3 handles better than the V6, despite sharing the same Haldex 4wd setup. Never driven an R32.
The R32 is in a totally different league, pricewise - you'll be hard pushed to find a good example under 19k.
Ignore the talk of Haldex power-loss - it's not quite what the 2wd boys would have you believe. This always gets the 1.8T boys backs up, but it's true - a V6 or S3 will leave a standard 1.8T for dead.
The Leon Cupra R is also worth a nod, but it's only 2wd and lacks quite a lot of finesse especially in the interior and 'quality' side. I had a test drive in one before I bought the V6 and was unimpressed with the Mk3 Golf switchgear and spartan trim - although it drove very well.
Good luck in your search!
S3's are terribly overpriced. You will not find one under 10k that hasn't been stolen, crashed or written off. A mate of mine just picked up a V-plate one for 12k with 65k on the clock - it's in mint condition however, and looks and drives fantastically.
Bear in mind too that the S3 uses the very tuneable VAG 1.8T engine which can be taken to 300bhp, and over, fairly economically - you can only take the V6 to about 250bhp before you have to look into seriously expensive twin-turbo or supercharger kits (but then, you're into the stratosphere performance wise - someone posted videos on here of a supercharged German V6 which'd push 200mph).
We've had a few mini 'races' in my V6 and his S3 (his is the earlier 210bhp model) and there's nothing in it - at all. The V6 gets it's neck ahead off the mark, but the turbo kicks in on the S3 and it's level pegging. As standard, the S3 handles better than the V6, despite sharing the same Haldex 4wd setup. Never driven an R32.
The R32 is in a totally different league, pricewise - you'll be hard pushed to find a good example under 19k.
Ignore the talk of Haldex power-loss - it's not quite what the 2wd boys would have you believe. This always gets the 1.8T boys backs up, but it's true - a V6 or S3 will leave a standard 1.8T for dead.
The Leon Cupra R is also worth a nod, but it's only 2wd and lacks quite a lot of finesse especially in the interior and 'quality' side. I had a test drive in one before I bought the V6 and was unimpressed with the Mk3 Golf switchgear and spartan trim - although it drove very well.
Good luck in your search!
Quote: posted by golfv64mo on 19/12/2004 21:22:43
Dunno where you'll find a 4Mo for 8-9k - unless you fancy one with a zillion miles on the clock, dents in the body panels and a very short options list.
Errm I dont think so I paid 8700 for mine and it doesnt have a single dent or scratch, has totally original paint and has a fvwsh, black
leather recaros climatronic 6 cd thingie and only 65000 on the clock, and I bought that 6 months ago!
PS I think it depends on what mileage you plan to put on the car as too how much you should spend if you only put 5000 a year on go for a very high mileage r32 or s3 and then when you sell it should only have average mileage or if you put 20000 a year on go for a very low mileage 4motion
Dunno where you'll find a 4Mo for 8-9k - unless you fancy one with a zillion miles on the clock, dents in the body panels and a very short options list.
Errm I dont think so I paid 8700 for mine and it doesnt have a single dent or scratch, has totally original paint and has a fvwsh, black
leather recaros climatronic 6 cd thingie and only 65000 on the clock, and I bought that 6 months ago!
PS I think it depends on what mileage you plan to put on the car as too how much you should spend if you only put 5000 a year on go for a very high mileage r32 or s3 and then when you sell it should only have average mileage or if you put 20000 a year on go for a very low mileage 4motion
Quote: posted by andymac on 19/12/2004 22:43:36
Quote: posted by golfv64mo on 19/12/2004 21:22:43
Dunno where you'll find a 4Mo for 8-9k - unless you fancy one with a zillion miles on the clock, dents in the body panels and a very short options list.
Errm I dont think so I paid 8700 for mine and it doesnt have a single dent or scratch, has totally original paint and has a fvwsh, black
leather recaros climatronic 6 cd thingie and only 65000 on the clock, and I bought that 6 months ago!
PS I think it depends on what mileage you plan to put on the car as too how much you should spend if you only put 5000 a year on go for a very high mileage r32 or s3 and then when you sell it should only have average mileage or if you put 20000 a year on go for a very low mileage 4motion
I second that matey, I'm sorry buddy but don't be convinced that us 4motion owners are commanding high sums for our cars (However good they are!!). 8 - 9 k privately will get you quite a number of decent high spec motors now. And I have lost nore than some!!! (I paid 14K for mine about 18 months ago... admittedly from a stealer but the warranty has been worth its weight in gold!!) If I'd have been looking privately at the time a similar car would have cost me 13K so in essence they have dropped 3-4K in 18months. Tis about right considering R32 had hit full swing, and Mk5 was making itself known...
Quote: posted by golfv64mo on 19/12/2004 21:22:43
Dunno where you'll find a 4Mo for 8-9k - unless you fancy one with a zillion miles on the clock, dents in the body panels and a very short options list.
Errm I dont think so I paid 8700 for mine and it doesnt have a single dent or scratch, has totally original paint and has a fvwsh, black
leather recaros climatronic 6 cd thingie and only 65000 on the clock, and I bought that 6 months ago!
PS I think it depends on what mileage you plan to put on the car as too how much you should spend if you only put 5000 a year on go for a very high mileage r32 or s3 and then when you sell it should only have average mileage or if you put 20000 a year on go for a very low mileage 4motion
I second that matey, I'm sorry buddy but don't be convinced that us 4motion owners are commanding high sums for our cars (However good they are!!). 8 - 9 k privately will get you quite a number of decent high spec motors now. And I have lost nore than some!!! (I paid 14K for mine about 18 months ago... admittedly from a stealer but the warranty has been worth its weight in gold!!) If I'd have been looking privately at the time a similar car would have cost me 13K so in essence they have dropped 3-4K in 18months. Tis about right considering R32 had hit full swing, and Mk5 was making itself known...
Quote: posted by ryan_s3 on 19/12/2004 19:47:10
Although a little biased the s3 was quoted by "evo" magazine as the best handling car audi produce 2 years ago.I believe the r32 is over-priced and as a future collectors car worth a buy.A chipped s3 is a seriously torquey fast car with a wonderful interior and lots of stuff.It is still fairly expensive but you get what you pay for.I think the 4 motion will be a let down and you will be selling the car on before long.So if you've got 20k go for a r32(solid residuals)if not go for a s3.
Have you driven a V6? I would have the R32 AND the V6 over the S3 anyday... And yes I have driven all three!!! (And I honestly think that the Leon cupra R is a better drive than the S3 too!!!)
Although a little biased the s3 was quoted by "evo" magazine as the best handling car audi produce 2 years ago.I believe the r32 is over-priced and as a future collectors car worth a buy.A chipped s3 is a seriously torquey fast car with a wonderful interior and lots of stuff.It is still fairly expensive but you get what you pay for.I think the 4 motion will be a let down and you will be selling the car on before long.So if you've got 20k go for a r32(solid residuals)if not go for a s3.
Have you driven a V6? I would have the R32 AND the V6 over the S3 anyday... And yes I have driven all three!!! (And I honestly think that the Leon cupra R is a better drive than the S3 too!!!)
Quote: posted by evilhomer on 20/12/2004 04:34:08
I second that matey, I'm sorry buddy but don't be convinced that us 4motion owners are commanding high sums for our cars (However good they are!!). 8 - 9 k privately will get you quite a number of decent high spec motors now.
Sure, there's the few 'good deals' out there, like Andymac has picked up, but you will be hard pressed to find a good condition 4mo with less than 60k on the clock for less than ?10k. Have a look on Autotrader, or even on eBay if you don't believe me. The facts speak for themselves. Go to a VW dealer, and for pretty much any V6 4Mo, high milers included, and you'll not get much change out of ?11k.
And I have lost nore than some!!! (I paid 14K for mine about 18 months ago... admittedly from a stealer but the warranty has been worth its weight in gold!!) If I'd have been looking privately at the time a similar car would have cost me 13K so in essence they have dropped 3-4K in 18months. Tis about right considering R32 had hit full swing, and Mk5 was making itself known...
Oh, I know that feeling! I bought mine 12 months ago for ?13k from a stealers. I imagine mine is probably worth around ?10.5k now (X-plate, 36k miles). A drop of ?2.5k in 12 months isn't nice.
I second that matey, I'm sorry buddy but don't be convinced that us 4motion owners are commanding high sums for our cars (However good they are!!). 8 - 9 k privately will get you quite a number of decent high spec motors now.
Sure, there's the few 'good deals' out there, like Andymac has picked up, but you will be hard pressed to find a good condition 4mo with less than 60k on the clock for less than ?10k. Have a look on Autotrader, or even on eBay if you don't believe me. The facts speak for themselves. Go to a VW dealer, and for pretty much any V6 4Mo, high milers included, and you'll not get much change out of ?11k.
And I have lost nore than some!!! (I paid 14K for mine about 18 months ago... admittedly from a stealer but the warranty has been worth its weight in gold!!) If I'd have been looking privately at the time a similar car would have cost me 13K so in essence they have dropped 3-4K in 18months. Tis about right considering R32 had hit full swing, and Mk5 was making itself known...
Oh, I know that feeling! I bought mine 12 months ago for ?13k from a stealers. I imagine mine is probably worth around ?10.5k now (X-plate, 36k miles). A drop of ?2.5k in 12 months isn't nice.
Quote: posted by AndrewB on 16/12/2004 10:01:20
There's an awful lot of hearsay and rumour about 4WD losses with the Haldex... Need to remember that it's not a centre diff like the A4 (and upwards) Torsen quattros, so the rear wheels can be totally disconnected to reduce power loss.
Does anybody have any real figures of Haldex power loss, because having gone from a 150bhp FWD 1.8T, straight to a 180bhp quattro 1.8T, I can honestly say it's one helluvalot faster!
Anyone got any figures?
/off_topic []
R32 if you can afford (a) the purchase price, and (b) the fuel []
S3 if not []
With the haldex disabled but still connected (so the prop shaft was still spinning etc..) similar to on the road assuming no power being transfered to the rear I was getting losses of just over 20bhp at peak on my last RR run.
There's an awful lot of hearsay and rumour about 4WD losses with the Haldex... Need to remember that it's not a centre diff like the A4 (and upwards) Torsen quattros, so the rear wheels can be totally disconnected to reduce power loss.
Does anybody have any real figures of Haldex power loss, because having gone from a 150bhp FWD 1.8T, straight to a 180bhp quattro 1.8T, I can honestly say it's one helluvalot faster!
Anyone got any figures?
/off_topic [
]R32 if you can afford (a) the purchase price, and (b) the fuel [
]S3 if not [
]With the haldex disabled but still connected (so the prop shaft was still spinning etc..) similar to on the road assuming no power being transfered to the rear I was getting losses of just over 20bhp at peak on my last RR run.
Quote: posted by EddyH on 20/12/2004 12:34:21
Quote: posted by AndrewB on 16/12/2004 10:01:20
Does anybody have any real figures of Haldex power loss, because having gone from a 150bhp FWD 1.8T, straight to a 180bhp quattro 1.8T, I can honestly say it's one helluvalot faster!
Anyone got any figures?
With the haldex disabled but still connected (so the prop shaft was still spinning etc..) similar to on the road assuming no power being transfered to the rear I was getting losses of just over 20bhp at peak on my last RR run.
Thanks Eddy. That's interesting... So you really reckon that almost 10% of the power is lost solely due to friction in the propshaft? Surely that's waaaaaay too high a figure?
Some simple physics: put it this way - if that's 20bhp translated entirely into friction, i.e. entirely into heat... I don't think that can be right, because that would be about 10 to 15kW. That's the same as having five 3-bar electric fires underneath! Surely not.
I've heard lots of problems getting a Haldex car RR'd, in that the figures are very misleading. Are you sure it wasn't something to do with that?
I still come back to my experience, of driving a 150bhp 1.8T for 50,000 miles, and then jumping straight to a 180bhp 1.8T Haldex. And it's so much faster, words fail me!
Quote: posted by AndrewB on 16/12/2004 10:01:20
Does anybody have any real figures of Haldex power loss, because having gone from a 150bhp FWD 1.8T, straight to a 180bhp quattro 1.8T, I can honestly say it's one helluvalot faster!
Anyone got any figures?
With the haldex disabled but still connected (so the prop shaft was still spinning etc..) similar to on the road assuming no power being transfered to the rear I was getting losses of just over 20bhp at peak on my last RR run.
Thanks Eddy. That's interesting... So you really reckon that almost 10% of the power is lost solely due to friction in the propshaft? Surely that's waaaaaay too high a figure?
Some simple physics: put it this way - if that's 20bhp translated entirely into friction, i.e. entirely into heat... I don't think that can be right, because that would be about 10 to 15kW. That's the same as having five 3-bar electric fires underneath! Surely not.
I've heard lots of problems getting a Haldex car RR'd, in that the figures are very misleading. Are you sure it wasn't something to do with that?
I still come back to my experience, of driving a 150bhp 1.8T for 50,000 miles, and then jumping straight to a 180bhp 1.8T Haldex. And it's so much faster, words fail me!
Quote: posted by golfv64mo on 20/12/2004 08:04:45
Quote: posted by evilhomer on 20/12/2004 04:34:08
I second that matey, I'm sorry buddy but don't be convinced that us 4motion owners are commanding high sums for our cars (However good they are!!). 8 - 9 k privately will get you quite a number of decent high spec motors now.
Sure, there's the few 'good deals' out there, like Andymac has picked up, but you will be hard pressed to find a good condition 4mo with less than 60k on the clock for less than ?10k. Have a look on Autotrader, or even on eBay if you don't believe me. The facts speak for themselves. Go to a VW dealer, and for pretty much any V6 4Mo, high milers included, and you'll not get much change out of ?11k.
And I have lost nore than some!!! (I paid 14K for mine about 18 months ago... admittedly from a stealer but the warranty has been worth its weight in gold!!) If I'd have been looking privately at the time a similar car would have cost me 13K so in essence they have dropped 3-4K in 18months. Tis about right considering R32 had hit full swing, and Mk5 was making itself known...
Oh, I know that feeling! I bought mine 12 months ago for ?13k from a stealers. I imagine mine is probably worth around ?10.5k now (X-plate, 36k miles). A drop of ?2.5k in 12 months isn't nice.
A search on autotrader gave 24 cars out of 115 under ?9995... the lowest of which was an indigo blue with recaro leather for ?7950. (A bargain if you ask me... its done 79K) Everyone of those you will take home for less than 9K
I appreciate what your saying mate, but don't forget it's only worth what someone will pay. I tried advertising mine 6months ago, when I was considering an R32. A month mate, and not one call... I had put it in for ?10,250. A Y plate 60K motor, with Full main dealer SH leather etc. Not one call... It's definitely a buyers market. I'm glad it didn't sell now, tho!![]
Quote: posted by evilhomer on 20/12/2004 04:34:08
I second that matey, I'm sorry buddy but don't be convinced that us 4motion owners are commanding high sums for our cars (However good they are!!). 8 - 9 k privately will get you quite a number of decent high spec motors now.
Sure, there's the few 'good deals' out there, like Andymac has picked up, but you will be hard pressed to find a good condition 4mo with less than 60k on the clock for less than ?10k. Have a look on Autotrader, or even on eBay if you don't believe me. The facts speak for themselves. Go to a VW dealer, and for pretty much any V6 4Mo, high milers included, and you'll not get much change out of ?11k.
And I have lost nore than some!!! (I paid 14K for mine about 18 months ago... admittedly from a stealer but the warranty has been worth its weight in gold!!) If I'd have been looking privately at the time a similar car would have cost me 13K so in essence they have dropped 3-4K in 18months. Tis about right considering R32 had hit full swing, and Mk5 was making itself known...
Oh, I know that feeling! I bought mine 12 months ago for ?13k from a stealers. I imagine mine is probably worth around ?10.5k now (X-plate, 36k miles). A drop of ?2.5k in 12 months isn't nice.
A search on autotrader gave 24 cars out of 115 under ?9995... the lowest of which was an indigo blue with recaro leather for ?7950. (A bargain if you ask me... its done 79K) Everyone of those you will take home for less than 9K
I appreciate what your saying mate, but don't forget it's only worth what someone will pay. I tried advertising mine 6months ago, when I was considering an R32. A month mate, and not one call... I had put it in for ?10,250. A Y plate 60K motor, with Full main dealer SH leather etc. Not one call... It's definitely a buyers market. I'm glad it didn't sell now, tho!![
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