I'm looking at trading the golf in against an Audi A4 Avant Quattro. Decided that it must be diesel and that 4wd is a must, but I'm having trouble deciding on either the 1.9 (130Bhp) or the 2.5 (180Bhp) engines. Apart from the difference in cost, does anyone know if it's really worth shelling out the extra for the 2.5 version? If it helps I would be looking at getting it remapped, all advice welcome.
Audi A4 Avant Quattro TDI
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Firstly, good choice. I would have loved one (and still would) when i replaced our Bora, but the Passat was/is ?10k cheaper.
Obviously the Avant will be quite a bit heavier than the golf, so you may find that the 130 engine, although sufficient, is not enough for the performance you are after. It does depend on what loads/people you intend to carry.
My tdi 130 passat estate is our main family car and therefore carries around two adults & children, plus pram + bags etc daily. With 180bhp it copes a lot better and the weight doesn't hinder it's performance.
Whether you go for the 1.9 and remap it to 180bhp, or go for the 2.5 with 180bhp as standard, is up to you. I would obviously suggest driving both before making your decision. Does the 2.5 come with a higher level of equipment/trim, as it does in the Passat format [?].
Obviously the Avant will be quite a bit heavier than the golf, so you may find that the 130 engine, although sufficient, is not enough for the performance you are after. It does depend on what loads/people you intend to carry.
My tdi 130 passat estate is our main family car and therefore carries around two adults & children, plus pram + bags etc daily. With 180bhp it copes a lot better and the weight doesn't hinder it's performance.
Whether you go for the 1.9 and remap it to 180bhp, or go for the 2.5 with 180bhp as standard, is up to you. I would obviously suggest driving both before making your decision. Does the 2.5 come with a higher level of equipment/trim, as it does in the Passat format [?].
I think a 3.0 TDI is on the way for the Passat and probably the A4 aswell. It's in the Touareg now and if I recall correctly, you can configure a 3.0TDI Passat on the German VW site. Might be worth waiting for that, I've heard the 2.5 is pretty dated in engine technology terms but I've never actually driven one myself. Think the 3.0 might be a "PD" engine.
If I was you I would stay away from the 2.5, like he says it's dated and also has problems with fuel pumps packing up, a very expensive repair. I have a Passat estate 130 TDI and un messed (not chipped) about with and it pulls like a train, bought it to sell on and fell in love with it, it does more than I want and the fuel/power return is fab. Also the spec on this model is realy high for this level of car. The PD engine can be chipped to get 170 hp out of it with out to much trouble, but if your constantly running at the top end of the power, the bottom end (engine)takes a hammering and can't cope with it. Just my 5p worth.
Quote: posted by richyrich on 16/11/2004 22:36:35
I think a 3.0 TDI is on the way for the Passat and probably the A4 aswell. It's in the Touareg now and if I recall correctly, you can configure a 3.0TDI Passat on the German VW site. Might be worth waiting for that, I've heard the 2.5 is pretty dated in engine technology terms but I've never actually driven one myself. Think the 3.0 might be a "PD" engine.
I thought the Touareg has a 2.5 in-line 5 cyl..... or have they changed it for 2005 cars?
I think a 3.0 TDI is on the way for the Passat and probably the A4 aswell. It's in the Touareg now and if I recall correctly, you can configure a 3.0TDI Passat on the German VW site. Might be worth waiting for that, I've heard the 2.5 is pretty dated in engine technology terms but I've never actually driven one myself. Think the 3.0 might be a "PD" engine.
I thought the Touareg has a 2.5 in-line 5 cyl..... or have they changed it for 2005 cars?
Quote: posted by dava on 17/11/2004 01:07:32
If I was you I would stay away from the 2.5, like he says it's dated and also has problems with fuel pumps packing up, a very expensive repair. I have a Passat estate 130 TDI and un messed (not chipped) about with and it pulls like a train, bought it to sell on and fell in love with it, it does more than I want and the fuel/power return is fab. Also the spec on this model is realy high for this level of car. The PD engine can be chipped to get 170 hp out of it with out to much trouble, but if your constantly running at the top end of the power, the bottom end (engine)takes a hammering and can't cope with it. Just my 5p worth.
Cheers mate, just the type of info I was looking for ... definetly not looking for expensive repairs after my experience with the golf. One query though, are all the 1.9tdi's within the Audi range pumping out 130Bhp or are there any 150 versions, as in the golf?
Also, could the 1.9 be a little under powered for the quattro system as I test drove one last week and was a little disappointed with it TBH.
If I was you I would stay away from the 2.5, like he says it's dated and also has problems with fuel pumps packing up, a very expensive repair. I have a Passat estate 130 TDI and un messed (not chipped) about with and it pulls like a train, bought it to sell on and fell in love with it, it does more than I want and the fuel/power return is fab. Also the spec on this model is realy high for this level of car. The PD engine can be chipped to get 170 hp out of it with out to much trouble, but if your constantly running at the top end of the power, the bottom end (engine)takes a hammering and can't cope with it. Just my 5p worth.
Cheers mate, just the type of info I was looking for ... definetly not looking for expensive repairs after my experience with the golf. One query though, are all the 1.9tdi's within the Audi range pumping out 130Bhp or are there any 150 versions, as in the golf?
Also, could the 1.9 be a little under powered for the quattro system as I test drove one last week and was a little disappointed with it TBH.
Only one's Ive seen pumping out 150 (the latest models are 2.0lt pushing out 140 hp), are chipped ones and to be honest, there quick but long term, will cause damage if pushed hard regulary. With the PD engine it's not the BHP which is important, it's the torque thats more noticable from low down. With out doubt one of the best i've driven, for that size engine, only thing I think is better is the new Mondeo, which is realy good but there are problems with front tyre wear, which you will get with the Passat when chipped, as you have problems putting tyre to the road. In it's curent form you can wheel spin in first and second, but pushed to 150+ then it spins in third and not realy pushing the car forward. My opinion just get it remapped, to get the best out of what you got and possibly fit a free flow filter to get more air into the engine, you dont need to go fancy k&n stuff, just something better than standard. The audi A4 2.5 is only 150 and not a PD engine, and IMHO, not as quick as the 130PD. Any 4wd will sap power as your driving something else, ie the extra drive train, (transfer box and axle)thats why running with a/c on saps up to 20% and is noticble when pulling at the top end. I'm sure there's more on here know a bit more so hopefully they'll add a post to this to help you out.
Quote: posted by dava on 18/11/2004 12:33:42
which you will get with the Passat when chipped, as you have problems putting tyre to the road. In it's curent form you can wheel spin in first and second, but pushed to 150+ then it spins in third and not realy pushing the car forward.
I can't say i have this problem in my Passat. Yes you could probably spin the wheels in 2nd if you really wanted to, i doubt 3rd on dry roads though. Unless you drive with your foot to the floor all the time, wheel spin is not an issue.
which you will get with the Passat when chipped, as you have problems putting tyre to the road. In it's curent form you can wheel spin in first and second, but pushed to 150+ then it spins in third and not realy pushing the car forward.
I can't say i have this problem in my Passat. Yes you could probably spin the wheels in 2nd if you really wanted to, i doubt 3rd on dry roads though. Unless you drive with your foot to the floor all the time, wheel spin is not an issue.
Quote: posted by dava on 17/11/2004 01:07:32
The PD engine can be chipped to get 170 hp out of it with out to much trouble, but if your constantly running at the top end of the power, the bottom end (engine)takes a hammering and can't cope with it. Just my 5p worth.
Dava, don't get me wrong here but you don't appear to have any experience with a remap. Your comments suggest that anyway. There are plenty of cars with 100K + on them that have been remapped so I think you may be offering somewhat disillusioned advice here.
To answer the original question - I don't think 130bhp will power a Quattro sufficiently.
The PD engine can be chipped to get 170 hp out of it with out to much trouble, but if your constantly running at the top end of the power, the bottom end (engine)takes a hammering and can't cope with it. Just my 5p worth.
Dava, don't get me wrong here but you don't appear to have any experience with a remap. Your comments suggest that anyway. There are plenty of cars with 100K + on them that have been remapped so I think you may be offering somewhat disillusioned advice here.
To answer the original question - I don't think 130bhp will power a Quattro sufficiently.
Quote: posted by richyrich on 18/11/2004 19:36:34
Personally I'd go for a Passat V6 if anything - miles more kit (leather std I think) than an A4. Think you can get a 4-Mo. Same car, less money.
I'd love to go for a V6, but with the mileage I will be doing I just couldn't jusitify the cost of the petrol ... really need a diesel.
Personally I'd go for a Passat V6 if anything - miles more kit (leather std I think) than an A4. Think you can get a 4-Mo. Same car, less money.
I'd love to go for a V6, but with the mileage I will be doing I just couldn't jusitify the cost of the petrol ... really need a diesel.
I believe Rich was referring to the 2.5 V6 Diesel Passat, it is the same engine as used in the A4.
I would have to agree, when i was looking, the difference in price between my Passat and the same enginened A4 was getting on for ?10k, with not a lot of difference in spec.
I would have to agree, when i was looking, the difference in price between my Passat and the same enginened A4 was getting on for ?10k, with not a lot of difference in spec.
Quote: posted by 02 Bora on 19/11/2004 10:39:26
I believe Rich was referring to the 2.5 V6 Diesel Passat, it is the same engine as used in the A4.
I would have to agree, when i was looking, the difference in price between my Passat and the same enginened A4 was getting on for ?10k, with not a lot of difference in spec.
Hmmm, now you've got me thinking ... I knew that engine was available in the A4 but wasn't aware it was in the Passat as well.
Cheers for the advice everyone.
**goes off and fires up autotrader.co.uk**
I believe Rich was referring to the 2.5 V6 Diesel Passat, it is the same engine as used in the A4.
I would have to agree, when i was looking, the difference in price between my Passat and the same enginened A4 was getting on for ?10k, with not a lot of difference in spec.
Hmmm, now you've got me thinking ... I knew that engine was available in the A4 but wasn't aware it was in the Passat as well.
Cheers for the advice everyone.
**goes off and fires up autotrader.co.uk**
Joined
·
1,528 Posts
Quote: posted by richyrich on 18/11/2004 19:36:34
Personally I'd go for a Passat V6 if anything - miles more kit (leather std I think) than an A4. Think you can get a 4-Mo. Same car, less money.
Petrol maybe but do NOT go for the V6 TDI as ->2003 they are 150ps, but the car is heavier by 110kg - which has been described as having another passenger in the car. The MPG is worse by 10mpg, so compared to an average 45-48 in a 130, the V6 would give you mid to high thirties. Acceleration is marginally better 0-60 but only by ? a second. They are also quite hard to drive, and pull away smoothly from standing start.
I have owned both cars, and hated every bit of owning the V6 - my regular hack is a 130 Sport Passat on a 53 plate, and I am really quite pleased. I did a 160 mile round trip to Wiltshire today across A roads and got 54.7mpg without *really* trying, but still with having the punch to overtake with speed.
Hope this helps. [
]
Personally I'd go for a Passat V6 if anything - miles more kit (leather std I think) than an A4. Think you can get a 4-Mo. Same car, less money.
Petrol maybe but do NOT go for the V6 TDI as ->2003 they are 150ps, but the car is heavier by 110kg - which has been described as having another passenger in the car. The MPG is worse by 10mpg, so compared to an average 45-48 in a 130, the V6 would give you mid to high thirties. Acceleration is marginally better 0-60 but only by ? a second. They are also quite hard to drive, and pull away smoothly from standing start.
I have owned both cars, and hated every bit of owning the V6 - my regular hack is a 130 Sport Passat on a 53 plate, and I am really quite pleased. I did a 160 mile round trip to Wiltshire today across A roads and got 54.7mpg without *really* trying, but still with having the punch to overtake with speed.
Hope this helps. [
]1 - 20 of 20 Posts
