[PierZ]

hi there folks,

im having a problem where by all the windows internally steam up completely after the car has been running and then left parked. After about 30 mins the condensation starts to form noticeably on the front screen. This normally begins as several round patches and then slowly spreads covering the screen. This is the sort of thing you see on old ford fiesta's not a reasonably new vw golf. This also sometimes happens soon after setting off on a cold night, quickly steaming up the rear window in this case. This you may think is normal - but it never happened last year in similar winter conditions. Its as if excess moisture is somehow getting into the heater system and subsequently getting blown onto the windows. On inspection of the blower fan below the pollen filter, i can see a very rusty fan spindle -not sure if this is normal-any thoughts here?

So excessive mositure is getting in. The car does feel damp in the morning again this could be normal, and it did used to smell musty on start up untill i recently changed the pollen filter. However changing the filter made no difference to the condensation build up.

I have checked the floor and boot for dampness to no avail.

I have checked the pollen filter cover is correctly fitted and there are no cracks in it.

I have checked the boot and door seals.

I have checked the bonnet release cable bulkhead grommet under the plenum chamber(schuttle panel)for weakness.

The only thing i haven't tried is the aircon water drain valve. It's location is shown in the 2 pictures below (No.10 top picture, No.2 bottom picture). Now i'm unsure if there is such a thing fitted to my car, as unfortunatley it is not fitted with climate control merly the nasty manual aircon. But i cant see this part anywhere i can see a cut out but when i lift this up it looks like there's just some kind of nut there with a long hexagon bolt sticking out, nothing like the picture or indeed a valve. It would be great if someone could check their golf for me, preferably one with manual aircon.

Not sure if this is causing the moisture problem but i'm lost otherwise.

I am open for any new ideas on what could be causing the fan to rust up. Is anyone elses heater blower fan spindle rusty?

http://tinyurl.com/5mvrx

http://tinyurl.com/64z8h

Checking water drain valve INSTRUCTIONS BOTTOM PICTURE

? Fold cover cap -1- in the insulation matting -3-, on bulkhead -4- upwards.

? Take water drain valve -2- out of bulkhead -4-.

Check water drain valve as follows to ensure that it functions correctly:

? The water drain valve must not be stuck together.

? The insulating matting must not be deformed or damaged in the area of water drain valve.

? The opening in the sealing cap of the water drain valve must point downwards.

Note:

When the cover cap -1- is closed it must be flush with the insulation matting. If the cover cap -1- is pushed in too far, the water drain valve sealing cap -2- can stick.

Please help me.[]

 

[PierZ]

oh forgot also tried cleaning the door drainage holes, the leaves from the plenum chamber, and i have no sunroof so no drains to check there!

 

[Easy-Runner]

Seems like you've checked the most likely areas for leaks. The valve that you mention on my car (with Climatronic), is located on the LHS of the centre console at the base of the aircon unit. It is connected to the aircon with a rubber moulding and exits as your drawings show into the engine bay behind the insulating material.

You have obviously checked the carpets for dampness, did you reach up and check the area around this valve? Sometimes the valve can become blocked (this is common with Passats), and the water can back up into the car and leak around the valve assembly. The other thing to check is the heater/aircon assembly is mounted on a large plate bolted to the bulkhead, on my car the seal at the base of this was faulty and water was seeping into the car and running along the ledge at the top of the passenger footwell area keeping the carpet damp. Careful application of silicon sealer in the engine bay cured the problem.

 

[ct.p]

As you are 'o-fay' with removing your pollen filter, have you checked to see if the recirc air flap is stuck in the closed position ? ... Mine was and it's quite common.

Once the pollen filter is removed, you can simply feel if this is the case. If you can, have an assistant press the re-circ button and and have a feel to establish if the flap is moving.

I had exactly the same problem as you describe and was lucky enough to free up the motor / air flap by helping it move by repeatidly pressing the recirc button and giving it a helping hand.... open-close, open-close, open-close etc etc.

Despite the misty windows, I only found out what was wrong when I pulled a fault code when I was servicing my car. Have checked for fault codes ?

Do a forum search and you'll find plenty of info, including my crys for help with good answers from others that have had this problem.

 

[PierZ]

yep i have checked to see if this recir flap moves which it seems to. Not sure how far it should open. i have seen it open and close. i havent used recirculate since i left it open, so i presume if it does stick it would only be in the recir off postion i.e closed and should not mist up. As for fault codes, mine isn't climate control only manual and as far as i know this has no dianostics available i could try VAG-COM, but i dont think it will show anything - am i right?

 

[PierZ]

correction "recir off i.e. open"

 

[PierZ]

is it worth changing the pollen filter again I changed it less than 6mths ago mind. perhaps its a weird one?

 

[PaulGT]

i have just done this procedure on both my car and my mums! both with climate. Hers has the valve, but mine looks like the one in the first pic with the valvle removed! All it is is a pipe end, as if the valve has been removed and not put back on!! Would this cause a problem?

 

[PierZ]

shouldn't as long as there isnt any water getting into the cabin. you could just go and order one from the stealers less than 3 quid, part no. is 1J0 820 119A.

 

[PaulGT]

cool, thanks!

well, on closer inspection there is a rubber thing there, its just different to that of the drawing(same as my mums). when u leave my car its like a river of water underneath it!

took the valve off my mums car and thats fine! many grazed knuckles later its back! lol

 

[GAR]

Paul have you tried,switching the aircon off?Switch the fan on set the

temp to max.Go for a drive,this dries the evaporator which is behind

the dash.If you allways have the aircon on,it never gets dried out,

giving the same symptoms you have.

 

[SEPaul]

Have you lost any coolant? Have you checked the heater matrix inside the car to ensure it is not leaking?

Good luck - hope you get to the bottom of it soon.

 

[PierZ]

where can i access the heater matrix from inside the car?

 

[SEPaul]

Quote: posted by PierZ on 07/02/2005 00:57:34

where can i access the heater matrix from inside the car?

Sorry - don't know where / how, but I do know it can be a source of moisture inside the car.

Maybe someone who does know will be along soon ...

 

[rxs_tdi]

Not sure how to get to the heater matrix on the Mk4 but I,ve just replaced the matrix on my old Mk2 and it was a horrible job.

In the case of my Mk2 I had similar problems and knew it was the matrix because I had a slow loss of coolant and eventually it got to the stage where there was a distinctive smell of antifreeze inside the car and it was like Turkish bath inside.

Keep an eye on the coolant level and good luck.

 

[PierZ]

still does it dam it! Changed the filter makes no difference. It just did it again, went to supermarket shopped for about an hour, not misted when i came back to car, but as soon as i started it the font windscreen developed several misty patches (similar to how patches of mould looks when it grows) The air from the aircon / heater made this water appear on the screen but because i had the aircon on a few seconds later it cleared the screen. I am confused as to what could be wrong with my heating.

Not sure if this is related but after switching off the car i can hear a bubbling / gurgling sound coming from the glovebox area. is this normal or is this trapped water / moisture that is causing my problem? tempted to take it to the stealers, but dont fancy them removing my dash or lots of my hard earned money from my bank - especially if they cant find the problem causing it.

i dont suppose anyone has access to the fault finding guides relating to this problem. I found this on the web

"Water leaks from other areas can also cause the windows to steam up. Systematic fault finding as outlined in the Workshop Manual ? ?Fault Finding Body, Bulletin No. 20, edition 10.95? should be carried out."

but i cant find this bulletin anywhere, can anyone help me?

Thanks again

Pierz

 

[SEPaul]

Trying to help, but I don't have air-con []

Are you losing any coolant, or do we think the moisture is from an external source?

Does it happen after a long / short run.

Does having the heater on "full blast" during the journey make any difference to the amount of steaming-up?

Wish I knew .... sorry

 

[PierZ]

Cant really say whether having the heater on full blast helps. did try it several times - it seemed to help , but came back once set back to normal heat position for a while.

I have run the car around over several days leaving the aircon set to on position and several days in the off position, it still occurs whether the aircon is set to on or off. i dont seem to be losing any coolant - not sure if source of moisture is external but cant feel any dampness anywhere and it does not have to rain in between driving, stopping, and starting up again for the mositure to appear. Thats why i think that the aircon or heater is either producing the moisture itself and blowing it on the screen (thats also why the blower fan spindle is badly rusted). Or less likely, as i should have dried it out by having the heater on full blast, moisture is still trapped somewhere inside the system or ducts. i dont really understand if moisture can actually be "produced" by the heater and / or aircon unit.

Surely if i had a problem with my aircon system the condensation would ONLY occur when the aircon was switched on. But this happens with the aircon on and off. Does this mean that my aircon system is ok and its something to do with the "normal" heater which must be used whether the aircon is off or on?

Also has anyone else got a rusty fan spindle? is this normal?

i do alot of short journeys - but like i say it didnt happen last yr and my habits havent changed.

One more thing it might be, but not sure, is the control knob for the air distribution was very hard to move the other day and i found the cause was due to several wires from the stereo and mobile phone car kit retro fitted where stopping the levers behind the dash from moving freely. These levers open and close various flaps (not sure what exactly) by a wire/s. Would the moisture appear if this lever / flaps was in the wrong position? i have moved the obstruction but the it now squeaks when moving from "full face" to any other setting. This may be unrelated, but i am getting desperate.

thx

PierZ

 

[PierZ]

i presume a heater matrix the same thing as a heat exchanger?

 

[PierZ]

what are the symptoms of a leaking heater matrix apart from misty windows? the coolant level hasnt noticably gone down any? also is it possible for a heater matrix to leak but still produce a decent level of heat?